Civilian??

H

Hammer27

Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
2,197
Alright folks, I've been mulling over the purchase of a Spyderco Civilian for quite a while and have come up with a few questions.

1. It comes with a tag stating that its not intended for "utility use." If I'm going to carry for SD and only SD its gonna get left in drawer real quick as I'm not going to carry a knife I can't cut rope, boxes, etc. with. I don't really want to shell out $100+ for a knife that will break on me (I'm reffering to the tip). Has anyone used it for basic chores? What was the result? Is it safe to?

2. I am a huge fan of PE and the wave. Does anyone know if the PE will be brought back into production or if a waved version will be made?

3.How well does it work with the ziptie wave?


Thanks for the help.:thumbup:
 
I think the Civilian isn't so much "weak" as it is "tricky to sharpen". Use common sense - it's not the thickest blade out there, so it won't hold up to the same use as something thicker. Also, let's face it, if you were looking for the optimal "user" knife - it wouldn't have a long, curved, serrated blade.

Everyone agrees you ought to keep an SD knife sharp - you never know when you'll need it, so better to not use it for daily stuff.
If you want a user knife, carry something else along with the Civilian.
 
They include that tag for a very good reason. The tip of the Civilian is VERY thin. You could use it for tasks where the cutting is done well behind the tip, like cutting rope, but I really would advise against using it on heavy cardboard boxes as a side load at the wrong moment would be very likely to snap the tip. Use on "etc." is harder to judge, but Sal has reported that there is a mushroom farmer who uses them for harvesting his crop.
 
Hey Hammer -- I don't really have use for a knife that is purely for self defense either. But if you're a fan of the curved Hawkbill or karambit style bladeshape check out the SuperHawk prototype. It'll be one heck of a user -- but might still have some of the qualities you're looking for... (and it's PE)
 
I get the impression that this tip is too thin to use for anything other than SD. How does it hold up for the owners out there? Has anyone actually broken a tip or came close?
 
I personally prefer the E4 Wave over the Civilian not only because it's more practical, but also because I personally think it's more useful for SD.
 
Re: the Civilian, does anyone know which law enforcement agency requested the design? If the question/answer is out of line or intended to be confidential, please advise of that fact. Just curious.
 
The Civilian was designed by Sal Glesser for DEA agents that were undercover and unable to carry a gun. It was designed exclusively for self-defense, and if that eliminates it from your wish list... Don't buy it.

Personally, I can't wait to get one. Though I don't plan to carry it on the norm. More of a collector's item to me.
 
Hammer27 said:
I get the impression that this tip is too thin to use for anything other than SD. How does it hold up for the owners out there? Has anyone actually broken a tip or came close?
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Haven't broken one and haven't come close, but if I was using mine as a utility knife in any way, shape or form I think I probably would have. When I carry my Civilian I also carry something like an SAK Tinker for a utility blade. It pays to listen to the advice of the guy who makes it, know what I mean? ;)
 
The Civilian is perfect for people with very little knife SD skills. The tip is its weak point, but when it is used for its intended purpose is outstanding. It's a very useful slashing weapon. I have no trouble keeping mine sharp. I recommend the Civillian and James Keating's training vidio. The vidio will teach you to appreciate the SD value of the Civilian.
 
I think of the Civilian the same way I think of a motorcycle helmet. Not a hat I'd wear unless I was riding and if it saves my life once it's paid for itself, even though it will need to be retired afterward.
 
It almost sounds like you're going to get one regardless of what anyone here tells you. I say go ahead and buy one. However, once you get it, and after the "cool" factor excitement wears off....in a week or so of playing with it...you'll never carry it. At least that's how it was for me. I got one. Played around with it for a week or so, showed it to a few family members, and friends who wondered what in the world I would do with such a scary knife, then I retired it permanently to its' zipper pouch. This type of knife has very little use to most civilians with their heads in the real world. Very cool, and useful design for its' intended purpose, which is as a last-ditch self defense TOOL. Only a piece for the collection for most people however. How many of us actually live day to day in an environment where our life is in that type of danger? Very few. Most people are better off learning how to properly use a suitable handgun, and getting a concealed carry permit. You may also want to check the knife laws in your local jurisdiction. The state I live in (Tennessee) forbids the carry of "hawk-bill" bladed knives.
 
I've had mine for much longer than a week and still carry it every day along with my SureFire E2D Executive Defender flashlight and my Caly3 or Lil' Temperance (those are what I generally use for the more cumbersome chores in the daily life of a Boy Scout). Though I do have some experienced in self defense with edged tools, the simplicity of the principle of the Civilian appeals to me. I also carry it because it can be passed off as a pruning knife (as a gardener's or outdoor enthusiast's tool) or a rescue knife to help save the lives of other people, as a Scout is always prepared.
 
I've used my Civilian once and it was on human. It is a flesh cutting device, and in that it excels. It is not a utility knife, not made for chores, and it only made serrated because it cuts through clothing more efficiently.
 
zenheretic said:
Most curious; the 2007 catalog still lists it as RH- tip down only (as it has been for some time), care to post a picture?

http://spyderco.com/catalog/2007SpydercoByrd.pdf
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From Spyderco's Web Site, bold emphasis is mine:
"The Civilian has a patented reverse "S" blade that's intended to be used like an oversized claw. The tip is ground to an ultra-thin profile. Deeply curved and full at the belly, the VG-10 hollow-ground blade excels in slicing and is available fully SpyderEdged. Because of its distinctly specialized features it is not intended or designed for general utility or everyday use. Curved in all the right places for ergonomic use and retention of the knife, the handle is black G-10. Mounted for tip-down carry with a custom curved black clip, the knife rides deeply and unobtrusively in a pocket. One of the most specialized CLIPITS in the Spyderco line-up, the Civilian is available in limited quantities."

Well.... I'm holding it in my hand, and there are two sets of holes - one set for tip up, and one set for tip down. It's only drilled for right hand carry, and it came new in the box that way in March of last year (from The Cutting Edge Knife Store on ebay.) In a day or two I'll try to get a scan or a picture taken, until then you'll just have to take my word for it. :)

By the way, I much prefer tip-up carry. Haven't tried to zip-tie it but I see no reason for it not to work.
 
Rainmaker870 said:
From Spyderco's Web Site, bold emphasis is mine:
"The Civilian has a patented reverse "S" blade that's intended to be used like an oversized claw. The tip is ground to an ultra-thin profile. Deeply curved and full at the belly, the VG-10 hollow-ground blade excels in slicing and is available fully SpyderEdged. Because of its distinctly specialized features it is not intended or designed for general utility or everyday use. Curved in all the right places for ergonomic use and retention of the knife, the handle is black G-10. Mounted for tip-down carry with a custom curved black clip, the knife rides deeply and unobtrusively in a pocket. One of the most specialized CLIPITS in the Spyderco line-up, the Civilian is available in limited quantities."

Well.... I'm holding it in my hand, and there are two sets of holes - one set for tip up, and one set for tip down. It's only drilled for right hand carry, and it came new in the box that way in March of last year (from The Cutting Edge Knife Store on ebay.) In a day or two I'll try to get a scan or a picture taken, until then you'll just have to take my word for it. :)

By the way, I much prefer tip-up carry. Haven't tried to zip-tie it but I see no reason for it not to work.
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I am taking your word for it, but I want to see it too. :o
If you can still read the bar code on the pouch that the Civilian comes in, there should be a little two letter code (indicating month and year of manufacture) can you read yours? That will help us pin point approximately when the tip up/down replaced just tip down. ;)
 
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