Clean slate - Modern sword

steve22595

steve22595

Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Messages
845
Designing a new sword for 2001.

I was wondering what current materials and methods you would use to design a modern sword from the ground up without any need for historical accuracy to any particular culture.

This would be a sword for your personal defensive use in todays world if firearms were not an option and edged weapons were tolerated in any size/configuration.

What type of performance characteristics would you like it to have?

What type of steel?

How big/small?

What kind of blade design?

Have any of you already drawn up a design?

Who would you have make it?
 
It would have to double as a machete, as a pure fighting sword would not have that much use in real life. I would like a 18" Differentially tempered carbon steel blade (5160, L6, S5, 10XX, etc), somthing in the shape of a bolo, a lot of distal taper, light and fast. Linen Micarta full tang handle.

Don't know about the maker, but several comes to mind.
 
Geez...

L6 or 3v or 5160 blade
micarta slab handles
anodized Ti guard and pommel

Serrated on the spine, straight edge, real wide blade with a pronounced swell close to the tip.

And a real idiot to use it.
Sorry, this kind of thing makes me sick.

Shinryû.
 
Steve, I design and build one about once a month. Each design will be the end of the world sword...untill I have a better Idea.
I have settled on several things for the perfect sword...make that perfect survival sword.
1. it has to be 5160 steel.
2. have utility use well over and above just OK.
3. be really deadly looking.

So far the best design I have come up with is a very modified Matulis. It has a deeper belly, wider blade, longer grip area (9inches) thicker blade (1/4 inch).

It makes a respectable sticker, great slicer, wonderful chopper. Can be manuvered quickly and maintained easily.

I'm about halfway finished with the 3rd revision. I still hug my Katana that I labored so long over but I think the Matulis may be the perfect design.
 
Peter,

How about a picture when it's done?
smile.gif



Steve
 
Be happy to. You may not like it though. No Micarta. Somehow I always end up with either rosewood or walnut grips.
 
Peter,

The matulis is a terrific design to start from in creating a short utility/defensive sword. Not many folks outside of the I/FMA community would think of that- by any chance, are you an escrimador? One of the things that I'm into is Doce Pares sword work.

It sounds like you are experimenting with a hand-and-a-half handle type. That should make for great balance, and the ability to shift a one-handed grip further back, as well as the obvious advantages of being able to use two handed swings on heavy cutting tasks. What blade length and OAL are you using?

Have you considered adding a sharpened false edge extending maybe 3"-4" back from the tip to your design? It would allow for quick backcuts and definitely adds a further dimension to the matulis' defensive capabilities.

Anyhow, I too would be very interested in seeing what you've come up with. And, if you'd like an independant performance assessment and feedback by an experienced swordsman, just e-mail me and I'd be happy to oblige.

Good Luck,

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
Thanks Gaucho but I'm not much of anything except a tinkerer.

The one I'm making now has a 20 inch blade and a 9 inch grip area. Add about an inch in between. I look at designs and try to reproduce them as rendered. I then use them both as utility blades and as weapons. I make changes at that point to suit both the utility needs and my fighting preferences.


On this model I settled on a hand and a half style with a slight downward angle to aid in power cutting.

It does have a sharpened false-edge extending about a third of the blade. This both allows backcutting and adds a great deal of thrusting penetration. The Grip as I said is angled downward slightly but the angle does not start to curve untill 4 inches behind the hilt. This allows the grip to be in perfect alignment with the point for a thrust.

I'll be happy to post pictures as soon as I'm finished.

[This message has been edited by peter nap (edited 12-19-2000).]
 
Peter,

Thanks for the info. Your design sounds excellent
smile.gif
. I look forward to seeing the pics.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
Peter,

You know, your design ideas coincide with some thinking I have been doing the past week. What constitutes a 20th to 21st century practical sword? Obviously the uses and methods of carry are going to be different, since our urban society puts distinct perameters on (legality, availabity to hand, ease of carry, ...?) on length, weight, and blade type.

If you look at a lot of the modern users (military, paramilitary, law enforcement, and various "arts"), the optimum length seems to max out around 20+ inches for the blade. Again, depending on user, you find exponents of straight blade (western), curved blade (eastern), and variations on the Wakizashi. I personally fence western style, so I like the little "court style" swords so popular in quality sword canes.

But, as in guns, much also depends on personal experience. As us seekers of Satori often say, the WAY is found through many different journeys, and the destination is not always the key.

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DeathDancer
 
If guns are outta pictures, there are MANY proven designs in the history. Why don't just pick one up and swap the material to modern stuff?

Why do we have to think up of something that may not work after all but neglect the deadly, proven designs of the history?
 
I guess I'll stick to my Barong. The blade is about 18" long with a 2.75" belly. The handle is about 5" without the stylized cockatu head. I would like to see this same short sword made in modern materials just for fun.
 
Dear CHAN Lancelot,

I agree with you that a good design will always be a good design. However, it would be very difficult to carry a full size Katana or Broadsword (at least without some serious and interesting "social commentary") while cruising the local mall or average boardwalk.

And I am being very serious, since I often like to take short midevening walks at our local Southern California beaches. So, what do I carry? For most of twenty years I carried a Balisong Bushmaster, approximately 16 inches long and about a pound. But to be honest, I would have liked something a little longer, say around 20 inches total length. Maybe something in a Filipino blade?

Anyway, there is always improvement and innovation. Remember, even those past weapons we consider "perfect" of their type were the end result of years of experimentation and development. And with the changing social atmosphere, carrying a small/medium/long sword (though I still like carrying a gun for "serious social occassions") might just become an option again. So, why carry a 2-plus pound Wakizashi if some "Tinkerer" like Peter develops a design that does exactly the same thing at 1 pound, more or less? You might have to modify a fighting, Iai, or Kungfu kata to allow for the lighter weight, but you also might gain that critical microsecond that means he gets cut instead of you.


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DeathDancer
 
Death Dancer,
I also like traditional swords like my Katanas and European blades, but in this day, they are hard to carry around. Their largersizes will draw some attention. The 20" blades can be concealed in a back pack easily. I like the Filipino blades because of the style I study, but I also have been using similar length Khukuris from Himalayan Imports. The 20" Sirupati, 18" - 20" Gelbu Special, and the 18" - 25" Kumar Kobra (lightest Khukuri around) all fit the bill. The Barong is my favorite because when you pull it out of its resting place, people exactly know that this is a butter knife.
 
1. I did say swap the material with modern stuff, that means you can construct something better within the same weight, or equally good with lesser weight.

2. The first message say "This would be a sword for your personal defensive use in todays world if firearms were not an option and edged weapons were tolerated in any size/configuration."

In the history, there were many times where civilians carried weapons around where guns were outta pictures, such as Chinese Scholar Gim, Scottish Dirk and many other options. Don't always fixate your vision on the most popular "long sword" or "katana".

If it was me, since I dun carry much things to the street most of the time, I would prefer a longer arms myself, but that's me only. If I'm going to shopping or carrying something along the travel, then I may pick a less cumbersome arms.

The point is, there are way more than enough choices to pick from the history, especially when Guns, Length and Size aren't a problem.
 
You want a real modern sword design? You need to see my hastsumi ginsu khukri. Just ask Rob M. about it... lol
 
Hey Broken Arrow,

I replaced my Bushmaster with a 15 inch Chainpure Khukuris and I play around with a 20 inch Sirupati by GH. However, I am first generation Filipino and have been trying to find a source for good quality "barongs" and "bolos" and other Pinoy designs. Got any suggestions or links? If you want to switch forums or go private via email, I'd be more than willing.



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DeathDancer
 
DeathDancer,

I don't know if you have checked out www.kriscutlery.com yet, but I have been using their Moro Sandata weapons for my practice sessions. They all hold up to actual use. The Barong, Sundang, Pinuti, and Kampilan have never let me down. My actual antique Barong is reserved for very special social occasions (if you know waht I mean). The KC Barong is a good favorite of mine. Not as heavy as a Khukuri, but cuts very well. Cecil (head honcho) of KC will have new and updated versions of the Moro blades soon. I need to save up some cash for this. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Broken Arrow (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
DeathDancer,

I have to agree with Broken Arrow- all my Kris Cutlery blades have held up extremely well and I train with them all the time.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
Just saw a very nice closeup of the Pinuti on another WebSite. Very impressive construction, compared to the traditional weapons from PI that I own. Oh Gawd, another thing to add to me vast resources for knife collecting! Thanks, guys, for your imputs.

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DeathDancer
 
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