Clean slate - Modern sword

mekugi breakage came from a combination of things, primarily age and exposure to the elements, but even that would not be a severe cause for concern, as long as the tsuka core was tight. The bamboo mekugi was not intended to "hold the blade in" per se, but rather to keep it secured in a tight fit. It was positioned so that it would minimize the stresses of wobbling that would cause the tang to "dent" or compress the wood inside the core. Of course this would result in weakening the integrity of the handle, and if such a thing happened, the only security would be the mekugi. But even when bamboo breaks, it does not snap or shatter, it crush-fragments into fibrous strands that will stay in place reasonably well until another mekugi can be made. Another positive thing about it is that it is not very hard. Metal pins and various other hard materials are fit in only one direction as they're tapered, but with time, hard materials will "wear" the mekugi-ana (peg hole) in the tsuka, and can work its way loose. Bamboo has give to it and does not push on the wood in the same way.

There are lots of advantages to the use of properly cured bamboo for mekugi, not to mention plenty of advantages for traditional design and materials for most parts of the sword. But I'm biased
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Shinryû.
 
Robert, "practical" swords are not my taste. But like handguns, there are a few Anschutz and tons of Colts, S&Ws, and H&Ks. Though my taste goes with Anschutz of katana, I don't think any others are all Saturday night specials. Well, mace and lance/spear took the place of katana in 14-16 centuries for praciticality as you mentinoned. IMHO modern practical katana should be more likely that kind instead tanto blade long knives of modern steel. Katana has changed from blunt instrument to artistic instrument. Call it the tragedy of Y!
To have fun of duscussion for discussion, I don't ask what use of a practical katana. I'm too much concerned into sword and other MAs to look for a fool proof practical sword.

tmaring, I agree and disagree with your comments. A well made, well maintained bamboo mekugi outperforms that of other materials like steel. But the statistic showed the reality, how easily an insufficient routine maintenance happened, and how easily people can forget the easiest tuneups, periodical peg changing. Most of the soldiers' rifle and pistol were safe and sound all the way, so they are just average soldiers. Bamboo was simply too delicate material for them. Nowadays most katana lovers are collectors. I agree with you and don't care about how an average user would treat a traditional katana even if they become a popular self defense weapon.
 
I see your points Wrongfriend, about most people being unable to assess the condition of mekugi.

The other feature of the Japanese style of swordmaking that I find "timeless" is the wide tang and use of the collar or "habaki" to form a flat surface for the guard to butt against. Most of the swords I made, in all styles, incorporated these features.

The fact that the blade is ground all the way off the end of the tang, without a "heel" (the place where the grind stops) allows the maker much finer control of the thickness and profile of the blade. The heel is where unrecoverable mistakes usually happen, and it forms a stress concentration later.

The "price" of these advantages is the necessity of making the habaki. Many makers quail at this task, but it is not so hard as many seem to believe. I made habaki for my swords out of copper, bronze, sterling silver, and stainless steel. I formed them using either a hard-soldering technique, lost-wax casting, or by welding. The most satisfactory ones I made were of stainless steel, TIG welded at the edges. The trick is to get a nice fit against the notches and taper of the blade. There are some tricks I learned the hard way that I could share if anyone is interested in trying this. The habaki is a great feature though... It is wonderful to have a nice solid and FLAT surface to butt the tsuba (or guard of any style) up against! That alone makes the habaki worth the effort.

For many of my western style blades I used a method I called "modified Japanese tang" which puts the mekugi-ana (peg hole) near the end of the tang. A tough hardened-steel toggle is then pegged to the tang (with steel or brass pin) and internally threaded. The sword is then assembled using a grade 8 allen screw inserted through the pommel. Any common allen-tool set will have the necessary size for dismounting and maintenance. This allows the tightness of the handle to be easily adjusted by any person.

My favorite handle wrapping material was always twisted stainless steel wire. It lasts practically forever, and if done correctly gives a good solid grip, even when wet. Again, there are some tricks known to only a few about wire wrapping. I've seen quite a bit of bad wire-wrapping out there that gives the technique a bad name.

Later Tom
 
Habaki is not difficult to make...and to make really fantastic ones the only real necessity is practice and patience. I prefer copper myself, and basic copper alloys like shakudo and shibuchi. Can cold-hammer around a blade itself, or use a template OF the blade and use a torch to help make the material more malleable.

The problems are when you cannot seat the habaki properly against the machi (notches) of the tang and when you cannot braze a seam on the side of the hamachi (notch at the edge). It's an ingenious little device, and acts to seat the blade in the saya. But the habaki itself is not what the guard butts up against really Tom, there are seppa (washer/spacers) on each side of the tsuba. the spacers provide the flat surfaces necessary for secure fit and also ensure the tightness and solidity of the handle assembly. The habaki does reinforce the area a bit too, and also keeps the handle assemmbly tight. Some makers like making sort of "integral" habaki that are part of the blade itself. A habaki is not a ricasso, and thus should not be treated as one.

Boy, this thread sure has gone through a bit of transition!

Shinryû.
 
Hi Robert:

As I said, I used the habaki on many other types of swords besides the Japanese style. I mentioned a "flat place to butt the guard up against" because I did not want to confuse the issue with the seppa. Actually, while I often used the seppa (a washer or spacer) I often did not, seating the gurad directly against the habaki. But, as you say, this discussion has gone off topic, so I'll jump to another thread if we wish to continue this. Tom
 
(I don't yet know enough about metals and heat-treating to specify here, but otherwise...)

I'd have a few choices...

First choice for me would be a wakizashi with the blade made by Howard Clark, and the handle constructed from some sort of modern material such as Zytel. I realize there would probably be more vibration in the blade, but overall I think it would be preferable for a daily carry sword.

In the winter here, it gets down to 40 below sometimes, and 30(C) below is not uncommon, so in the winter I would wear a 15" khukri. The 15" Ang Khola I have now is a bit heavy for actual fighting (for me anyhow,) but I think if it were a normal khukri, I would trust it against 1 to 3 people with swords of their own.

However, I would imagine if such conditions applied where I live, (legally, they pretty much DO, people just choose not to wear swords,) I wouldn't need a sword often, or likely at all, so I might just carry something like a 4' nodachi, assuming I was walking everywhere (which isn't hard where I live.)

One thing I haven't noticed anyone mention yet is sword-catchers of any kind. True, you would have to know how to use them, but they would probably be quite useful against the common thug who has little or no sword training. I don't know that _I_ would carry one, but I don't think it would be a bad idea in the right set of hands.
 
I would like to see CS's Kukri blade, the Gurkah model, in Busses InFi Steel sporting Canvas Micarta scales. The whole thing would have to be coated in the gold TiNi.

Kick Ass!

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Fear is the mind killer
 
I'd go with a two-weapon carry, myself. The original post specified size was no option, so I'll assume that sword carry has become socially acceptable in the new Bush presidency and select accordingly. I'd choose a long-ish double-edge blade for my primary weapon, 33-37" long w/a bucket or swept hilt configuration. I've got a swept hilt sword rapier I like real well, but I also like the thumb-forward grip of the Patton saber. The guard should walk that fine line between good coverage and being ungainly. For the companion piece, a long (10-16") bladed dagger with an unobtrusive cross hilt; enough to parry, yet simple enough to conceal and draw easily. Carry the dagger always; when in Wal-mart or similar PC environment, leave the primary sword in the truck.

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V.
 
As much as I loathe this thread, may as well put some hypothetical input.

For those who want something practical and effective and requiring little to no training as well as a high degree of versatility...you are mistaken if you think a sword is the appropriate weapon for you. No offense.

If we live in a hypothetical society where swords were the social norm, I would probably shoot myself (albeit illegal...tsk tsk to guns!) to temporarily avoid the pathetic course the world is taking.

Beyond that, I would lose all interest in swords. I would probably learn calligraphy and grow various plants to occupy my time and emotions.

But let's say every alternative of mine to sword carrying was illegal. I would be miserable and get myself a Gendai uchigatana in full mountings and a ko-wakizashi in full mountings. Both fully traditional.

If axes are illegal to own or use, maybe a falcata or kukri of some sort. Perhaps a baskethilt with screwdriver bits integral to the basket, or maybe I can conceal an illegal wrench in the basket.

Since a flashlight is too bulky, I'll have to have one concealed in the end of the scabbard for the baskethilt. I dunno what to do without a survival shovel though, so maybe I'll just have to use a celtic-style leaf bladed short sword with a wide fuller for that task. Maybe a rapier with a serrated section of the blade for a saw.

No thanks. If I had to have a sword, I'd have a daisho as described above, and then I'd have a fooking toolbox, no matter how illegal it is.

Addendum: Those of you who took this post completely seriously, I should clarify this is more intended as a satire...a joke. I am traditionalist and have every strong opinions, and it has been pointed out from previous posts and threads of mine in the past.

[This message has been edited by Robert Marotz (edited 01-26-2001).]
 
Robert, I wonder if you could tell me how you came up with these conclusions. Do you have a martial arts background or LE or are you just streetwise?
 
Yes I am (well now it's more of a "formerly") a practitioner of JSA and am avid in the appreciation of what swords (mostly Japanese, as I don't have the background or practice to get involved in other styles) actually are. I only give my slightly more biased opinion when I feel like balancing things out just a little between traditionalist and modernist.

Being that this is BladeForums, it is easy for people to forget that the modernists and utilitarians outnumber traditionalists by a dramatic margin. With swords, there is a very distinct line that separates what the traditionalists want and what the modernists want. There will ALWAYS be friction there. But I do wish to keep a little bit of a balance, even if my voice is one of a few.

I don't give a damn that you call me a sword snob...I've received hate mail around similar trivial ideas. I've admitted to it before. If you have any arguments with me on a personal level, I have contact information readily available. However, hate mail is not appreciated.

Addendum: My post on the previous page of this thread was more as a criticizing joke. In case some folks out there took it all literally, I felt I should clarify it.

[This message has been edited by Robert Marotz (edited 01-26-2001).]
 
Robert, I don't think I called you a sword snob however you do act like one. I do question some of the comments that you make. It appears that they come more from a textbook than from experience. At any rate as you pointed out. This is not the place to air personal disagreements.
 
Hey guys, I know here at the blade forums the emphasis is a little different. I know that a lot of the people here come from a tactical/martial arts background rather then a historical martial arts background. Tactical is all very well and good and utilitarianism applies very well to todays knives, they are still utility tools and are used by most of us every day.

On the other hand in this day and age the idea of a utilitarian or every day use sword is kind of silly. Let's face it, a sword is an obsolete weapon. The best swordsman in the world loses when faced with some punk kid wielding a Tech-9. As such this move towards a "tactical sword" is kind of pointless for any reason except for aesthetic ones. By this I mean that if you like the way your "functional katana" looks then that is fine but in all reality a "functional katana" is no more useful then a traditional katana.

There are some of us who like the traditional sword better. We like the way they look, and we like their connection to history. We know that these designs were evolved by folks that actually used these swords in combat every day. That doesn't make us snobs, that just means that we reject the theory that "utilitarian is better" when the only real utility for today's sword is martial arts where the traditional forms are the ones that are used and expected.
 
There is a reason the traditional styles are traditional. They WORKED. WELL. There is always room for variation in any technology or art. But never confuse DIFFERENT with BETTER.

I am one of those oddballs who sits the fence between "traditional" and "modern."

I love traditional "weapons." I love their histories. I love the way they look. I love the way they smell. I love the way they sound. I love the way they taste (don't ask). I love the way they FEEL.

But I also believe that, no matter how pointless it may be, if we don't allow room for change in the things we love, then they begin to stagnate. If that happens, then the heart is gone out of them and they are dead (ever studied Japanese gardening philosophies?). THEN there is truly no point.

I'm all for additions to the family of the sword. While I disagree with the use of most "modern" materials and redesigns, I won't begrudge others their imagination. Who knows, in their experimentations someone may find a "better" blade material than lovingly crafted carbon steel. Or a "better" grip than leather or braided wire or ray skin.

As some people seem to harp, there is little to no practical use for a sword as things stand in the world today. Imagination is no worse excuse for keeping them around than nostalgia is.

My two cents.
 
Gee...I was going to let this die but now I feel like I'm the sword snob in reverse. Let me try to explain how I feel and why.

First I also sit on the fense with swords. One on my most loved possessions is my Katana. I built it and it is very traditional. I use it for practice but rarely cut with it. I just built another AR 15. It's nice and I LIKE it but it is to fight with...period. It does not compare to the many 98's and 1917, that I've built into functional beautiful weapons to hunt with and admire. I use modern but love traditional.

Second, I disagree that there is no tactical use of the sword. It would not be my first choice nor it be my last. It would be right up there with my hunting bow. I DO NOT PROPOSE that people strap on Katana's or broadswords and go out looking silly. I do keep one sword or the other in my jeep for both emergency defense and clearing brush. For that reason I build mostly working class type swords. The matulis that I have a picture of in this forum is an example.

It is not possible to be armed to the teeth all of the time however I try to learn to fight with EVERYTHING I have. I also practice with everything from mace to my cane, and yes I do need the cane to walk sometimes. I have a lot of milage. The last sword attack I remember here was about 3 years ago where a gentleman of questionable sexual orientation, managed to have his head severed while on a moonlight stroll. The sword weilders were never caught.

A sword snob is a person who feels that his way is the only way. For instance he may feel that only a Katana with a perfect hamon is fit to have and all people with KC's are vermon. My problem with Robert is not that he likes traditional. So do I. No, the problem is that he exclaims in a loud clear voice that anyone who likes modern is wrong and ...I'll try to quote " it makes me sick this this tac BS sells" or something like that.

He reminds me of the man who has never been to the mountain but teaches rock climbing.

Now Robert, as you said in your last post, you've gotten hate mail. I can understand why but this is not a hate post. I don't hate you and I haven't sent you any mail period. ...It just makes me sick that your BS sells! It would be one thing for a member to continue to push his ideas, but a moderator should be held to a higher standard. Try to figure what the word MODERATOR comes from and tell me you are moderate in your opinion and mor important...posts.

NOW..I think this is my last word on this thread. Flame on Robert!
 
Gentlemen:
I'm not sure how a simple discussion has devolved to acrimony. I read back through and could not identify any particular point at which the tone changed.

If I may offer an analogy from my experience in the business... There is one unbreakable rule in the knife selling business. Never ever violate another's personal space with the business end of a blade!

I was guilty of this a couple of times. I was demonstrating the lightning-fast draw of a combat knife from a concealed shoulder-rig and would show it by drawing the knife in the direction of the customer, thinking this would be most impressive. WRONG! Even if the point never gets within two feet of their body, there is an implicit violation of their personal space. They became quite uncomfortable and it took me a while to realize why. After that, I ALWAYS demonstrated a draw to the side in a way that was clearly non-threatening to the client. It's the same thing in the gun business... you NEVER point the barrel at the customer, no matter what... not even if the action is open. The line of the barrel violates personal space.

In the same way, some of the comments here are rather pointed, in a sense, violating personal space and causing discomfort. People may not even realize they're doing it or why they're uncomfortable. Let's just call it an unfortunate oversight and move on.

Just a thought. Regards: Tom
 
:
I have always been interested in edged weapons of all kinds and over the years I have picked up a very few nice blades that are nice to look at and to have, but not to be used in todays society in this country as none of them are what I would call utility knives.
A couple are from Java and a couple more old blades are from Morocco and one of these could be called a short sword I would suppose.

When I was a young man that married way to young there was never enough money to hardly make ends meet, let alone too have anything left over to spend on knives or other edged tools or weapons.
And yet old car springs from the auto salvage were either free for the asking or very cheap.
I made some hellasious knives, some bordering on short swords as my dad and uncles would tell me. I did this at the machine shop I worked at during lunch break and before and after work.
I never worried about the asthetics of what was right or wrong, I just followed my own vision and did my own thing.
And some of these blades were very good choppers and some were very good throwers. I never had one break.
I even traded a couple one time for a dining room set with 6 chairs and a buffet from a second hand store so they were also pleaseing to someone else evidently.

There is something very satisfying in designing and making a large or small edged utility tool and/or weapon that works and works well in the area's that it's designed for.

And I will get satisfaction from taking a H.I.Everest Katana, that's not a katana nor is or was it meant to be, and bringing out the temper line made by a careful pouring of water along the hot edge of the steel, if possible, that's laying under the highly polished finish the blades come with, just to see if I can do it.
I know that it can be brought out by etching it as that's already been done by B.A.
I guess it can be likened to climbing a mountain just to see if it can be done.

So Peter I for one applaude your efforts and I would be very interested in reading a review of your sword's performance when you get it finished.
From its looks it should be exactly what you have in mind.
And besides some younster might come in here and see this thread and think, "Man, I could do that too!!"
And that would be a good thing IMO!!!


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>>>>---Yvsa-G@WebTV.net---->®

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
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