Clean slate - Modern sword

Modern means concealable.

Concealable means a total length of 18", the length between hip and knee joints.

Short length means double-edged and heavy.

Heavy means balanced at the choil for quickness.

Balanced at the choil means a long, heavy 7" handle and 11" blade.

General heaviness means robust, thick section and flat grind.

Thick and robust allows stainless steel.

Stainless steel allows BG-42, a ball bearing steel with excellent edge holding capabilities and impact tolerance.

I have undertaken to make this sword myself, having it cut from CADD drawings by water-jet, shaped by my own hand with files, and now in the polishing phase.
It presently has a satin finish.
Thomas Haslinger will heat treat it for me.

This sword will ride on the thigh under pleated trousers, suspended from an inside-the-trousers belt, and accessible through a front pocket with no bottom seam.



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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
 
Broken Arrow is right about KC. I have a number of their blades and as I recall Broken Arrow was the one who suggested them. They are top notch and Cecil is a great person to deal with.

The Basic requirments I've set for a modern sword and I do not agree that modern materials are a great deal better than the older carbon steels, are as follows:\

It must be a Good utility tool.

It must be a very good slicer, good enough to amputate limbs at a full run.

It must be a fair thrusting sword and this is where the Katana's start to fall behind (besides their utility)

I said earlier that it must be deadly looking but I was joking, it must look like a tool. It's no good if you have it in the trunk.

I still keep coming back to a long heavy Matulis. By the way KC sell the Matulis.

 
I thought that I was finished with this thread, but I mistakenly investigated when I saw that it grew to 21 postings.

NO,NO,NO!! Swords are made for fighting, taking and defending lives. It might have started out as a tool and evolved into a sword, but the final outcome has always been to improve and refine its ability to separate man from this mortal veil!! Even spears got smaller and more efficient when they lost their application for taking game and began taking people.

If I wanted my sword to look like a tool (much less be one), I've got a tree lopper made by RAZOR ONE, 16 inch long blade, 1 1/4 inches wide, 1/8 inch thick, 10 inch long handle, and a sharpened (but rounded) tip. Looks like a giant old bread knife. But it cuts throught real meat and bone when I swing it, and slices though muscle and other tissues when I draw cut. But it isn't a sword.

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DeathDancer
 
Deathdancer, Sometime back I was asked not to post on a sword board. One of the sins I committed was to call some of the people there "Sword Snobs". Your comment sounds a lot like one of those people made it.
I have carried a 1911 every day of my life for the last 25 years. I have always and will always consider it a TOOL. Granted, it is a better weapon than a hammer and I would be hard pressed to use it as a hammer....but I could if I had to.

We live in the year 2000 and pretty near 2001, and the world is run by soccer moms, mothers against drunk drivers, standard issue street soldier type cops and assorted slack jawed faggots. The simple fact is if you run around these days with a 29 inch Katana strapped on your back you are going to get shot, locked up or laughed at.

Further, although I have been in several knife fights in my misspent youth, I have not been in a position to attack or be attacked with a sword, ever. That may change someday but to date it has not. I have been shot, but a sword would not have changed that. I have however been in a number of areas where I had to chop or dig my way out of a jam. Mostly in the mountains. A true sword would have been ruined.

While what you said has merit from a technical standpoint, I responded to the question with the real world in mind.

 
Please don't apologize. I guess I did get carried away, and sword design needs to accept aplications in the real world. It's just that I get passionate when people say that a sword could also be used as a machete or brush cutter. You're right, a sword is a tool, just like the 1911 (I also post on 1911Forums.com, same name). But, I'd still like to point out that the 1911 is a very specialized tool, just like a very good sword (no matter what the design or origin) is a specialized tool.

I personally like little "pointy ended" swords, since my background is western style fencing. I have a really nice collection of 17 century style Small Court Swords, along with some matching left-handed daggers. You can't get much more specialized than that. And it wouldn't be to far out for me to carry one of those daggers as a self-defense weapon.

Be that as it may, I am in no way a "sword snob". I like them all, just personally think that the aplication sometimes overshadows the design and intent. IMHO.

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DeathDancer
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I was wounded by a KC custom butterfly sword. A 1/2" chop into my hand after I messed up a move. I went into shock, I saw the inside of my hand, and it hurt. I still have the scar.
 
Sorry Deathdancer. I shouldn't have suggested you were a Sword Snob. I had this discussion with them about blade designs and it got heated. I agree with you to an extent about design and use. Any tool I've had designed to do everything, did most things poorly. One of the things that drew me to the Matulis was the fact that it was used as a tool first and a very effective weapon second. Thus the utility.

I still train with some of my old co-workers (LEO's). Most of us are retired or have changed professions. My shoe shines were never good. Anyway I have shown several times why we have the 15 foot knife rule. I started with a wooden Katana and after several injuries, switched to one made from golf club tubes.

I spent a lot of time going over Grey's Anatomy and have found that with the Matulis I can disable the gun arm (hand), starting from 15 feet and the officer's gun holstered, 98% of the time. This is during cutting practice. This has gotten to be a challange among some of us. If they can't get me with a paintball they spend the rest of the week working on their draw. The point in this is that a tool can be used as a very effective weapon and still be a good tool. The Barong that Broken Arrow has used for years is the same type of tool/weapon.

Anyway...sorry I called you a SS. I didn't mean it.
 
Peter,

One of the reasons I stopped taking Kendo was the spectacular bruising your ribs and lower abdomen sustained. I'm not one to avoid hard work and paying dues, but at 35, it was very difficult healing for my next session.

As I said when I first entered the Forums, my carry blade of choice was a Balisong Bushmaster, a great general purpose outdoor and camp knife. Also one of the nicest little mini-swords ever made. My dad said that it was the shortest "bolo" he'd ever seen, compliments from a first generation "Pinoy". If we weren't so passionate about swords and knives, we'd be at another Forum.

Would someone point me to a picture of a Matilus? I may be familiar with the sword form, but I don't recognize the name.

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DeathDancer

[This message has been edited by DeathDancer (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
Hello, just found my way to this forum and read through the previous posts. I'm a retired swordmaker now, so none of my comments should be seen as self-serving. I built something like 69 custom swords in many styles during my career.

I agree that sword designs are rather an individual thing. The position that swords held as social accoutrements as well as weapons in the past is no more. Even military and presentation swords are mostly glitz and little content.

I wrote an article that was serialized in KNIVES '86 and KNIVES '87 (I think) about what a real sword is (and why most of the commercial stuff available now are NOT really swords at all) One thing I did was to define a "sword" as, among other things, a weapon with a blade 18 inches long or more. You need to draw the line between sword and knife somewhere!

I think that the Darwinian evolution of sword designs from ancient times has led to a winnowing of styles to a few that really work. Of those, I have to hold the Japanese katana up high, mainly for the wide tang, wrapped handle, pegged takedown construction style which has no equal. This construction can be used for any size or style of blade you like. Modern materials can influence design slightly, but this is often taken to excess. (a polished handle is useless when it gets a little slick with blood)

In terms of carrying a sword... sorry, that seems rather ludicrous to me now. The most useful "combat" role for the sword today... I feel... is home defense. This is true especially in those situations in which there is concern about stray rounds (like in an apartment). A determined and skillful swordsman, on his own turf, is a real force to be reckoned with by any would-be ruffian or cut-purse.

There are some other features that a "real" sword needs to have, but this post is getting long and I don't want to bore people.

Well... happy new year

Tom Maringer
 
Yeah shove off man...boring people is MY job!

Hehe just kidding...

Welcome! Nice to see a maker around once in a while. Perhaps you can more appropriately introduce some of your experience in swords and we can share some info.

Shinryû.
 
Tom, please bore us either on this thread or others. Your experience is most welcome. I tend to agree with your general defination of "Sword". I would like to point out that there are some situations outside of the home where noise is a concern, that a sword has a narrow but very real tactical role. There are times when you just plain don't want to advertise a fight.
 
Tom, as long as they're not X-rated feel free to disclose whatever. What styles you worked in, where/if there are any extant online examples of your work, some problem customers, whatever you like. I made a post in another thread giving the opinion from my experience between a sword and knife if you want to look. Would be advised that if you have a lot to share that is on a different topic, please start a new thread.

Hope to hear more from you.

Shinryû.
 
I wonder about the length of the sword as the defining attribute.
I interpreted the question regarding a modern sword as meaning a sword one could carry today.
I suggested a total length of 18" since one can conceal an 18" sword along the thigh.
Everyone who examines my work in progress calls it a sword, by virtue of its weight, double-edge, point and balance.

I remember a fellow in Portland some years ago who carried a double handed sword (real sword) and wore a great kilt on a daily basis.
Not everyone will make that kind of sacrifice in order to satisfy an inner drive.

I say, see how much one can pack into a concealable length and then see if others call it a sword or a knife.

------------------
Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
 
In the book "Katana and decapitation" I recently read the author says katana design has some rooms for improvements in its rigs.
Japanese army brought katanas out of traditional rig to China 70 years ago by anachronism. Most soldiers suffered from rust, blade play, broken tang pins made from bamboo, and worn out the silk handle wire on their heirlooms' handle. The thin blade opt to bend and chip. All of them were not "factory", but some of them were master's made.
IMHO there are more room in rigs than blade materials. As modern or future swords, telescopic handle (automatic preferred) for concealed carry seems fruitful. Some gadgets like supersonic, or laser blades will be preferred if they are available. Am I going too far into Sci-Fi? Not too far. We have 100 years to achieve anything within 21 century!

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(T_T) ...crying
\(^o^)/ ...cheerful
(ToT) ...crying
Mizutani Satoshi
 
If you only want a quasi-foolproof weapon that does not need good training, stay away from swords. A mace would be more your style...maybe a machete, since it has an edge, is low maintenance, can sometimes take abuse, can be concealed, and is cheap.

It's a bitter shame that Tac BS sells.
 
I was interested to read the post by "wrong-friend" from Japan. You mention the breakage of bamboo sword pegs in battle. I would like to discuss the pegged construction style a bit.

In my opinion, The only way a properly made bamboo sword peg (mekugi)could be broken is if is was so old as to have deteriorated from rot, or improperly cut from inferior bamboo.

When working on my first Japanese style Katana (this would be late 1977) I decided that modern materials would far outperform something so crude as bamboo. I made the sword with a steel handle pin. It was terrible! First of all, it was terribly difficult to get everything to fit right. Secondly, when I did, it was too tight. There was too much force bound up in the handle and the blade felt stiff and transmitted a lot of shock to the hand and arm.

The bamboo peg by contrast, has a springiness that lends just the right amount of shock absorbtion into the system. Good cured bamboo, cut from a thick-walled culm close to the outer surface is, as it happens, the perfect material for this job. I have tested all sorts of carbon fiber rods and plastics and metals... but I keep coming back to bamboo!

Any soldier carrying a pegged construction weapon should be as intimately familiar with the take-down of his sword as he is with the takedown and cleaning of his rifle or pistol. Pegs breaking in battle can only be the result of insufficient routine maintenance and care of the sword, and periodic replacement of this inexpensive but crucial component.

I would think it particularly egregious to carry into battle an old family sword without a routine once-a-century tune-up.

Tom Maringer
 
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