Coffee talk: GEC Should buy Queen

rockgolfer said:
Why? GEC would have nothing to gain. They already make knives in high demand and Mr. Howard and team come up with new patterns that always sell, always.
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Maybe not always. GEC 38 special? It's a goofy looking pattern in my opinion and there are still plenty available.
 
Elgatodeacero said:
i would skip buying any "patterns", i dont think anything is really protectable since its all based on 100-150 year old consumer knives.

is the machinery worth anything after you disassemble , pack up, freight to new location, reassemble, inspect and repair, or dispose of because too much to repair

the Queen name has a very small value, but i feel like 1,000 dollars or something similar. anything more than a token payment makes no sense to me.

only a wall street idiot could be convinced to buy Queen as a going concern. but that gives me an idea, ........ anyone on the forum good with bar and pie charts and the exponential function on a calculator?
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Buying competitors name brands is worth it to get them out of the marketplace and that's about it. As far as the machinery, bankruptcy courts sell it for pennies on the dollar unless it has real value. I bought and sold machinery for a living, some of my best deals were through the court.
 
Camillus said:
I think the Queen brand name *can* recover in time - the best knife I bought this year is a Queen S&M - the question is whether it is worth recovering... Great Eastern Cutlery hasn’t really needed the Northfield or Tidioute brands to be successful. There are currently too many badly made knives in circulation with the Queen name on them, and there are likely to be older and cheaper brand names around if someone wanted a brand to restore and produce.

I think the real threat to GEC lies in a future company that is not as idiosyncratic with its production - i.e. a company that produces exactly the knives that customers want to buy. The current business model is based on creating demand by limiting production of the more popular knives and driving up demand and value.
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I've never understood this. Don't get me wrong, Camillus Camillus , I'm not attacking you--just seeking clarification and discussion. I hear people say this about GEC at times. I've never thought it was really fair, though.

On the one hand, I think your comment about the idiosyncratic nature of GEC's production is insightful. But I think (and this is just my option based on nothing but my gut) the reason behind is different that what you followed up with. I don't know that it's fair to say that GEC's "model is based on creating demand by limiting production of more popular knives and driving up demand and value" and that's the proverbial other-hand.

One has to wonder why a company does not crank out more of the knives that sell so well (#15 barlows, #77 barlows, #78s, #47s, #85s, as examples). People clamor for them. A typical company would increase production of the aforementioned patterns. But if their goal was to increase demand and value with limited runs, they would capitalize on that by increasing prices of individual knifes from those specific runs. GEC has not really done this! Sure #15 & #14 barlows have crept up in price, but we don't know if that increase is going to GEC, to the person ordering or to the retailers. But the larger point here is that even those isolated increases have come pretty slowly and we've not really seen them with other popular patterns (#77s, #78s, #47, or #85s).

So, if we observe there is an idiosyncratic nature to the production, but GEC is not really benefiting from a supposedly contrived inflation in value, perhaps, then, there is another reason or motive for what we're calling production "idiosyncrasies."

There is a big subset of collectors and users who groan and yawn every time another run of #15s comes out, for example. This is at odds with the mass purchasing of the pattern. This subset of people want to see less popular patterns, for historical and collectible reasons. I have always suspected that management at GEC is trying to do something more with their company than just crank out #15 barlows for half of their production each year. It could be (and I have always felt it is) the opposite of intentionally creating demand by limiting production. I suspect they are trying to do something bigger as a cutlery company for the traditional knife world and, if I'm correct, I think it's admirable. Consider how aggressively GEC has been in creating new patterns. For a young, small company, they invest A LOT in new tooling. They are trying to accomplish something for the traditional knife world, I think. And I've never perceived it as a deliberate business model intended to drive up demand and value. In fact, I think often they do what they do at their own disadvantage. Some patterns they produce, they know will sit on shelves longer than, say, another run of #47s will. Why do that? Why have #82 Bull Moose sit on shelves for a year when they could have run #85s and sell them in days? Because they are worried about demand? I think there's a different motive here. I think this is a case of different "big picture ideas." Just my sense. I could be wrong.
 
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IF someone brings back the Queen name, I hope they focus on making a good, affordable "working man's" knife like Queen was known for when they first started.

If the owners of Rough Rider bought the name, they could use Queen to replace the Colt line of knives, with a price point between Rough Rider and Case.
 
PaulS. said:
Maybe not always. GEC 38 special? It's a goofy looking pattern in my opinion and there are still plenty available.
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The French Kate wasnt popular either. Heck the courthouse whittled sat around awhile when it came out.

Taste change and the ones that dont move today(38 special) will eventually be real collectors because they will probably never make them again.

While some models do sit on the shelves awhile, I am sure a lot have sold already.
 
rockgolfer said:
The French Kate wasnt popular either. Heck the courthouse whittled sat around awhile when it came out.

Taste change and the ones that dont move today(38 special) will eventually be real collectors because they will probably never make them again.

While some models do sit on the shelves awhile, I am sure a lot have sold already.
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You may be right. I'm not a collector. I've bought 2 GEC knives and I found the craftsmanship on my particular knives to be almost flawless. However, they ended up dropping out of my EDC rotation and were eventually gifted because they weren't what I was looking for in an EDC knife.

I'm sure GEC collectors will buy ANY pattern released to add to their collection, no matter how goofy it looks, but there must be a lot of people who agree with me about the 38 special, because it's still readily available from every GEC dealer's website I've looked at. Time will tell, but I predict dealers will reduce the price on this pattern to move the remaining inventory.

My point still stands, not every GEC ALWAYS sells out, unless you're talking a year or more.

Edit: This is getting off topic, so I'm going to stop my responses in this thread to this topic. I'm just stating my opinion and respect everyone else's opinions. if we all agreed, life would be boring! :D Not trying to get in the last word, but discussion about the popularity of GEC releases should probably be in the Let's talk GEC thread. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lets-talk-gec.1081593/
 
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I hear there's a wanna be Kiwi cutler with extensive auto body and management skills, he visited Titusville and was all the talk of the town. I think that's the only chance Queen could be resurrected successfully;):eek::D

Seriously, and part of that last statement was true (the talk of Titusville part) but as much as I'd love to see Queen back, GEC having a hand in that doesn't seem wise.
 
Normally a company that manufactures a product has no vested interest in the aftermarket value.

Cutting production doesn't increase demand, it eventually drives consumers elsewhere.

Most people demanding *more popular patterns* are either collectors or those reselling GEC's for profit with no vested interest.

The problem is when people start *collecting* their buying habits change along with their perception of value.

In other words, if your day is ruined because a dealer is *sold out* or you think GEC is purposely driving up prices in the aftermarket by limiting production, it might be a good idea to stop buying new GEC knives for a few months. Maybe focus on older Case knives ???

It's actually extremely difficult to manufacture a product, market it, make a consistent profit and keep consumers interested.

The people at GEC do a great job and make a very high quality product.

Personally, I hope everyone enjoys their knives (and the hobby) to their hearts content.

Share your knowledge and wisdom with today's youth (they really could use it!).

And by all means, cut stuff (a bunch of stuff) with your knives! :D

- Del
 
MCar MCar I agree it is complicated - I didn’t intend to mean that GEC deliberately restricts production of popular patterns, but also I don’t think you can divorce GEC’s success from the way it produces knives - but successful business practices is a massive topic that I don’t purport to know enough about to comment on.
 
paulhilborn said:
I hear there's a wanna be Kiwi cutler with extensive auto body and management skills, he visited Titusville and was all the talk of the town. I think that's the only chance Queen could be resurrected successfully;):eek::D

Seriously, and part of that last statement was true (the talk of Titusville part) but as much as I'd love to see Queen back, GEC having a hand in that doesn't seem wise.
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Why you son of a .....:D

lol, my friend you have the "wanna be" absolutely bang on!:(:(
I have owned some very nice Queens - the S&M usually are pretty darned nice, earlier Queen days when Bill was there would it be fair to say was very much more higher QC consistently leaving the Factory doors, it is a darned shame they had to close, when Paul and I went to the Queen show and saw the Daniels Family, we met Ryan and had a nice chat as well, a real shame for that family, when there's a split of partners in a Company there's always a bit of bad blood etc, but business and history wise of Queen with having made some amazing Knives in the past ..... devastating to the Knife world, GEC - this was only good news from a business perspective.
 
Thanks guys for all chatting, I really enjoyed reading all your comments. I agree that Queen does have a black eye with quality but I have a Queen City sowbelly trapper and a S&M splitback whittler that are almost flawless. I believe a company that has a great reputation with quality could buy Queen and people will buy them based on the parent company’s reputation.
 
So about making popular patterns again- say you were a collector, and you found -the knife-, the one you’d been looking for for years, you moved heaven and earth to find it. Then, GEC makes 300 of them when they only made 10 of them 5 years ago. Users would be happy, but it also cheapens the chase for collectors.

And don’t listen to Bill Howard. He says the knives are made to use, not collect, then makes sprint runs and handle materials that are 1 of 5. :p
 
This is a picture of the 6th GEC knife I bought (late summer/early fall 2015).

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It sits (to this day) brand new in the tube because my arthritic hands *CANNOT* close the knife once I open it.

When I bought it, the dealer had both the polished and the satin blade version(s) available.

I went with the satin blade simply because I liked it better.

Fast forward a couple of years...

I discover/look at the production numbers and see that GEC only made 4 of them with a satin clip blade.

Is this knife left over parts? small demand for satin Northfield's knife? or something intentional?

So whether 4 or 400 or 4000 were made, I still can't use the knife (unless I leave it open on my desk).

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My point:

GEC production numbers (much like USPS tracking) are both a blessing & a curse!

- Del
 
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waynorth said:
One of only four?? Lucky you!!
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Thanks Charlie, but it was blind *stupid* luck at best.

Actually, that knife would have went on our church Christmas tree for 2015 had it been easier to open.

Instead of that one, my wife picked a #38 for the Gentleman's tree.

We have a lady's tree, a gentleman's tree and a couple of teen/kids tree every year.

It's nice to see people so thrilled over a pocket knife, and even more so, knowing they use them!

- Del
 
A brand is worth what the maker puts in it. Knowledge, craftmanship, quality, the result is reputation and it takes time to build a good reputation. Badge engineering may fool the unaware but a wise man checks the object then makes his own mind. Whatever the name. A thoroughbred pig is just a... pig. I love pigs, but would never bet a cent at Kentucky Derby, even on a thoroughbred (except on pig races of course, but those happen rarely heard I say). :)
 
DelOro DelOro I've seen my share of lock backs that are near impossible to disengage. Nothing more frustrating. There's a trick to making a really good one that unlocks easily yet has zero play.
 
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