Coffee thoughts... M390

[W. Andyrsen]

Grain structure is more important than hardness (within the confines of this discussion.) Same steels at the same hardness can have different microstructures.

 

[W. Andyrsen]

Double post.

 

[Skywalker31]

If we're talking Benchmade I have some of their older M390 (581, 586, various 707/710/730 LEs) and in blade shapes with good geometry I've been pretty happy with it.

730's never going to be a slicer anyway but I've used an M390 710 hunting for over a decade now and been really happy with its performance. 581/586, similarly pretty happy. They don't seem to give up too much to the wider assortment of M390/204P/20CV Spydercos I also have floating around.

Iirc there was some kerfuffle around the Bailout in a carbon steel (3V? M4?) being too soft and they corrected it in future runs. I have felt that some of their older (2015 and earlier) M4 was a little soft but again, it's on models with blade shapes/profiles ground more for toughness anyway.


I guess I think they can and should do better than 58-61 for what they currently charge, but if it was one of their models that I really liked and could convince myself to shell out the money I would probably not be concerned about the HT on one of their M390 or 20CV blades.

Third, fourth, and fifth are M390...used to be easier to pick up multiples when they weren't $450 and I didn't have a wife and kid

 

[Deino]

To put things in perspective, Carothers makes batches of lets say 20 -100 knives and they list an exact HRC or a range of 1 point from what I've seen.

I'm guessing this is a very modest operation compared to the larger knife companies.

How is a small shop getting more consistent results? Maybe they put more effort into the product and QC than into advertising, etc... ????

I don't see your logic here.

Smaller profuction means less variance and less amount of work to put into the quality control. Carothers knives are not exactly cheap neither. Each of them is as expensive as a custom made-to-order.

Mass production companies can't always test 1000s blades at once due to time constant. Mass heat treatment also gives different results even in the same forge. The different placement of the blades and heating elements can all play on the final quality. Naturally to make money out of mass production, you have to sacrifice the quality somewhat. Otherwise, mass production is not as easy as it seems.

 

[Lesknife]

I’m sipping some coffee now and my thoughts are that over the last few years I’ve noticed that some of the high hardness knives in the 64-65 hrc range were being reported as having chipping at the apex. Im guessing that the knife manufacturers backed off the hardness in an attempt to reduce the chipping problem and warranty returns . I know there’s many people out there who want maximum edge retention in a folding pocket knife and I understand that but with what I’ve learned is that even when the hardness isn’t up there it still performs very well if not better at say 61-62 depending on the metal. As long as it doesn’t chip or roll the edge it should cut very well and im happy.

 

[270ultimate]

That would be a FANTASTIC shot, if only the clips were mounted on the correct sides…

 

[Skywalker31]

That would be a FANTASTIC shot, if only the clips were mounted on the correct sides…

Brother if you're here for the axis lock you're just going to have to accept there will be extra southpaws around

But I did switch it to a purple anodized deep carry clip so now it makes more colorful pictures.

M390, M390, S30V. (Hunting knife, wedding knife, I'd rather have a Manix 2 knife)

 

[R.Russell]

I don't see your logic here.

Smaller profuction means less variance and less amount of work to put into the quality control. Carothers knives are not exactly cheap neither. Each of them is as expensive as a custom made-to-order.

Mass production companies can't always test 1000s blades at once due to time constant. Mass heat treatment also gives different results even in the same forge. The different placement of the blades and heating elements can all play on the final quality. Naturally to make money out of mass production, you have to sacrifice the quality somewhat. Otherwise, mass production is not as easy as it seems.

Carothers smallest and most recent offering to my knowledge is their EDC 1.2, it had a cost of $400, not sure if that included tax and shipping. So the price is comparable. And it’s full tang with a 3” blade. So roughly 7” of the higher cost steel.

Obviously making thousands of knives increases your workload and allows for more errors. But you’d think the bigger companies could actually afford to scrap knives that didn’t make spec, something a smaller shop couldn’t necessarily do.

It seems the consensus is that the tolerances of 58-61 is acceptable to most guys here, so be it. Appreciate the banter