Cold Steel Recon1 vs Zero tolerance????(any model) Which one is tougher knife?????

Just by the hard use testing I have seen on a ZT 350 vs Cold Steel Recon 1 the difference isn't that big. I was a little surprised because I just assume the quality of ZT to be superior because frankly when I hold a ZT vs a CS the ZT just feels like the more quality knife. Though that turned out to not be the case in the hard use tests.

I still don't get why Cold Steel has perhaps the strongest lock on the market but won't use a little better steel on the blade.
 
G10 is actually pretty strong. There really is no need for liners. I saw a cutlerylover video where he stuck his recon 1 into a tree and bent it and the blade broke but the g10 just flexed. The code 4 has aluminum scales though
 
RevDevil said:
You sure do love logical fallacies don't you? How do you normally prepare your red herring?
:)
Click to expand...

They may throw premium materials at it, but it is still an inferior design. Materials being equal, which is a superior hard use knife? A ZT, or a Demko? Which will hold up better? ZT makes nice knives, but from an ingenuity standpoint, the liner/frame/back lock design is far inferior to Cold Steel's tri-ad lock designed by Demko.

That being said, I would rather see a ZT collaboration with Cold Steel, boasting a Tri-Ad lock, then what they did with Strider.

If you ever get a chance, pick up a Cold Steel Code 4, and be prepared to have your mind blown by a knife with an aus8 blade. I prefer the plain edge spear point. A folder so insanely strong should not be so light.
 
ursamajor said:
Cold steel by lightyears.

All ZT can do is use tired designs, and throw materials at the problem. Cold Steel in their folding knife designs are innovative on a level that very few ever reach in production knives. It is kinda like comparing a coal powered steam engine to a nuclear engine. One is just much more in terms of design. I am sure that there are some really pretty steam engines out there though.
Click to expand...


Such an inflammatory post, the intent to garner troll food is obvious.
 
Last edited:
ursamajor said:
Is a nuclear engine a "COAL POWERED" steam engine?
Click to expand...
No, of course not. Although, "nuclear engine" isn't really a thing. There are steam engines that use nuclear reactors as a heat source. But, regardless of terminology, my comment was in response to your seeming ignorance that nuclear reactors create power through steam engines.
ursamajor said:
It is kinda like comparing a coal powered steam engine to a nuclear engine. One is just much more in terms of design. I am sure that there are some really pretty steam engines out there though.
Click to expand...
 
I thought everyone knew that nuclear power plants no matter how big or small generate steam to create power. As for CS tri-ad locks vs. other types, CS wins hands down. I think the use of AUS8a in a lot of the knives they have manufactured allows them to hit a part of the market that a lot of folks don't. That is most people. The AUS8a and the way they have it treated is really very very good. Tri-ad lock is second to none. keepem sharp
 
Yeah, to call AUS8-a mediocre steel is really ridiculous and shows IMO an immaturity regarding these sorts of things. So it dulls a bit quicker? So what, touch it up. It doesn't chip and it's damn tough for how inexpensive it is. No steel is going to stay sharp forever and a lot of those "super steels" have their trade offs such as higher difficulty to repair edges and in some cases brittleness/willingness to chip. I dig the harder steels just as I dig the softer stuff and luckily I have the ability to sharpen both. But I do appreciate if I had to that I could sharpen steels like 420HC and AUS8 with improvised tools, not so much with the super steels. As far as what is tougher, the crazy vids are out there on both knives and if I had to be purely objective I've seen more videos of the new Triad equipped CS knives taking ludicrous pounding doing things I'd never envision doing to my knives and coming out smiling.
 
Ill throw in my .02...

zt is a crazy over built knife when they started with the original models (ie. 030x,0200, and 0350). They have since introduced a couple more not as much tanks of folders (ie. 560, and the other folders that you dont hear much about).

I feel like my zt0300 has proven itself the toughest folder I have ever owned. I have owned numerous coldsteels and they CAN be nice knives but for me it seems they are inconsistent.

my ti lite is the weakest line lock Ive ever seen. I can disengage the lock using one finger of negative force.....While my American lawman was strong and rock solid. I guess it all depends on which locking mechanism of cold steel your comparing to zt's knives.

overall, My personal choice would be a zt...

In regular use you will never have a problem with a lock that can hold over 200lbs, and believe me neither company is a joke of a knife.
 
Both brands have reason to be proud of their products.

I personally prefer ZT's. The ZT 0550 Gen II is one of my all time favorites (I gave my oldest son my only SnG after using the 0550 Gen II over a weekend) and in my opinion the 056X series may be the best production knife I've ever seen/used. I'm also very fond of the 030X series by ZT as they can handle any job that I'll have for a knife and it fills my hand wonderfully and is very comfortable to use. I'd prefer the Recon 1 much more if it had aluminium or titanium scales...this would allow the knife to be removed from your pocket without so much wear and tear on your pants.

There is no doubt that the Recon 1 is a great knife, especially for the money but I'm not sure why having the "strongest lock" (if that is true) is so important to so many. If my best hard use folder was a slipjoint I'd have no problem at all using it all day without issue. When using a knife I tend to use the sharpened edge of the blade for cutting and having the pressure applied to the cutting edge does a great job of keeping the knife open. Maybe its because I was raised using slipjoint folders that prevents me from being too concerned about the type of lock a knife may feature.

I guess more to the point of the OP's question, I'd pick my ZT 0550 Gen II, I'm sure its just as rugged as the Recon I and the blade won't have to be sharpened as often as the Recon 1. Of course, the Recon 1's blade is easier to sharpen (AUS8 has always preformed well for me) but I try to never allow my knives to become dull in the first place...I'll often touch up the blade after use to keep it sharp. Now, if money were an issue I'd be more than happy to use the Recon 1 as my main user and I'm sure it would preform just fine.
 
Last edited:
Cold Steel does make some interesting knives. Strong folders and weak fixed blades. Very clever stuff.

But for me, the Tri Ad/Back Lock is my least favorite type of lock. I much prefer a well done liner lock or frame lock or Axis lock.

And while AUS8 is tough, its not that tough which explains the old style AK I threw away last year, which chipped out a nickel sized piece. While their lock is strong, I see plenty of blade damage. A knife with a broken lock is a usable knife in a sticky situation. A knife with a broken blade is a handle.

Cold Steel knives are a good value, but I'm not so sure they are all good designs. I would love to see better liner lock from them, but then it wouldn't be able to smash cinder blocks or whatever most people use them for.
 
Ford1911 said:
Just by the hard use testing I have seen on a ZT 350 vs Cold Steel Recon 1 the difference isn't that big. I was a little surprised because I just assume the quality of ZT to be superior because frankly when I hold a ZT vs a CS the ZT just feels like the more quality knife. Though that turned out to not be the case in the hard use tests.

I still don't get why Cold Steel has perhaps the strongest lock on the market but won't use a little better steel on the blade.
Click to expand...

Well, lessee.... comparing knife sizes.... there is ONE ZT that is only 2 1/2 times the price of a ZT. Just one.... (comparing the CS American Lawman to the ZT 350)

For comparably sized knives, The other offerings from ZT are anywhere from a little more than 3 1/2 times to times the cost of a Cold Steel comparably sized knife to 5 times as much!

I would guess that the Cold Steel folks are quite happy making hard working users that are a tremendous bang for the buck. No, their AUS 8 doesn't match up to my Kershaw in S110V as far as edge holding goes, but it is a great working steel for me. I use this knife in my construction work when it comes up in my rotation. It holds the edge well enough for me for the uses it gets on the job such as cutting fiberglass load strapping, cutting open heavy cardboard packaging, trimming wood molding, opening hard plastic containers of adhesives, light scraping, etc. Take the knife home, a couple of passes on the diamond chef's rod I have out when cooking dinner and it is back up to sharp immediately. This is certainly not the AUS 8 I have dismissed for years.

But I don't have the requirements that others do. I know that some folks need to be able to chop their way out of a downed aircraft, be ready for their SHTF scenario that could strike anytime, or be prepared for being lost in the Amazon for days on end with no sharpening gear. Although I have some really heavy folders that I take to work, I don't always need a cutting instrument to do much more than say... cut. While I really like the Kershaw/ZTs, slicing isn't their strong point, and I don't believe that line of knives was meant to be anyway.

I personally think it is important to fit the knife to the task, and more important, to the budget. If you can afford a $150 to $250 knife and find one that fits your needs and desires, then buy it! If a $50 knife does what you need and you are happy with it, buy that one.

There are trade offs on any purchase, and personally, I would sure want to make sure that if I was spending 3 to 4 times as much money that I got at least that much more utility value out of the tool. CS puts out a great tool for the working man, or the guy that has utility on his mind, and I am sure that part of the huge affordability of this knife line comes from choosing an inexpensive steel and then extracting all the performance out of it that can be gotten.

Robert
 
spyderco lover said:
Magnesium is an incredibly flammable alloy, with a burning temperature about 5000 degrees fehrenheit. I believe you are referring to titanium, which has a very high melting temperature and great strength/weight ratio
Click to expand...

Titanium is also a combustible metal. I don't know how hot it burns but I have seen a few Swiss turning centers burn to the ground because of titanium fires. So it burns extremely HOT.

Truth is neither are likely to ignite in a solid form without the assistance of an acetylene torch. Milling or turning chips are a different story.
 
Last edited:
midnight flyer said:
Well, lessee.... comparing knife sizes.... there is ONE ZT that is only 2 1/2 times the price of a ZT. Just one.... (comparing the CS American Lawman to the ZT 350)

For comparably sized knives, The other offerings from ZT are anywhere from a little more than 3 1/2 times to times the cost of a Cold Steel comparably sized knife to 5 times as much!

I would guess that the Cold Steel folks are quite happy making hard working users that are a tremendous bang for the buck. No, their AUS 8 doesn't match up to my Kershaw in S110V as far as edge holding goes, but it is a great working steel for me. I use this knife in my construction work when it comes up in my rotation. It holds the edge well enough for me for the uses it gets on the job such as cutting fiberglass load strapping, cutting open heavy cardboard packaging, trimming wood molding, opening hard plastic containers of adhesives, light scraping, etc. Take the knife home, a couple of passes on the diamond chef's rod I have out when cooking dinner and it is back up to sharp immediately. This is certainly not the AUS 8 I have dismissed for years.

But I don't have the requirements that others do. I know that some folks need to be able to chop their way out of a downed aircraft, be ready for their SHTF scenario that could strike anytime, or be prepared for being lost in the Amazon for days on end with no sharpening gear. Although I have some really heavy folders that I take to work, I don't always need a cutting instrument to do much more than say... cut. While I really like the Kershaw/ZTs, slicing isn't their strong point, and I don't believe that line of knives was meant to be anyway.

I personally think it is important to fit the knife to the task, and more important, to the budget. If you can afford a $150 to $250 knife and find one that fits your needs and desires, then buy it! If a $50 knife does what you need and you are happy with it, buy that one.

There are trade offs on any purchase, and personally, I would sure want to make sure that if I was spending 3 to 4 times as much money that I got at least that much more utility value out of the tool. CS puts out a great tool for the working man, or the guy that has utility on his mind, and I am sure that part of the huge affordability of this knife line comes from choosing an inexpensive steel and then extracting all the performance out of it that can be gotten.

Robert
Click to expand...

I don't think it would be that difficult to offer say, D2 as an option and still kepp the street price of the knife under $100.
I wasn't trying to bash CS and I am still not. But a company that has the slogan "Worlds Strongest and sharpest knives" it would be nice to see some options for blade steel. They have a fabulously strong locking mechanism but they limit themselves with no options for blade steel.
 
Ford1911 said:
I don't think it would be that difficult to offer say, D2 as an option and still kepp the street price of the knife under $100.
I wasn't trying to bash CS and I am still not. But a company that has the slogan "Worlds Strongest and sharpest knives" it would be nice to see some options for blade steel. They have a fabulously strong locking mechanism but they limit themselves with no options for blade steel.
Click to expand...
IMHO continually striving after "super steels" in a pocket knife is trying to find an answer for a question that does not exist. Once upon a time aus8 was a premium steel. I recently moved to a cold steel code 4, but prior to that, I had carried an American Lawman for months. I used it daily, and I have only had to sharpen it twice (once or twice a week I would give it a dozen or so passes on a steel).

Anyone who has ever gotten a knife from me knows I keep my blades as sharp as the devil. I don't tolerate a dull knife, and none of my cold steel folding knives are quick to dull. They are all aus8. I have no problem with it, it takes a wicked edge easily, and holds it.

Finally, in real world, every day use, Cold Steel has multiple lines of triad lock knives that are better suited for two world use than ZTs. And they are stronger than Kershaw's standard line, while remaining as nimble.
 
ursamajor said:
IMHO continually striving after "super steels" in a pocket knife is trying to find an answer for a question that does not exist. Once upon a time aus8 was a premium steel. I recently moved to a cold steel code 4, but prior to that, I had carried an American Lawman for months. I used it daily, and I have only had to sharpen it twice (once or twice a week I would give it a dozen or so passes on a steel).

Anyone who has ever gotten a knife from me knows I keep my blades as sharp as the devil. I don't tolerate a dull knife, and none of my cold steel folding knives are quick to dull. They are all aus8. I have no problem with it, it takes a wicked edge easily, and holds it.

Finally, in real world, every day use, Cold Steel has multiple lines of triad lock knives that are better suited for two world use than ZTs. And they are stronger than Kershaw's standard line, while remaining as nimble.
Click to expand...

In my real world use, I don't hang 450 lbs from my lock. I know it's a cliche, but I cut with the sharp side of the blade. Saying that super steels are an answer to a non-existent problem, and yet the Triad lock isn't, smacks a bit of skewed logic.

-Super steels are the answer to the "How do I make it so my knife doesn't dull as quickly?" question.

-The Triad lock is the answer to the "How do I make the lockback mechanism stronger?" question.

For my uses, I prefer the answer to the above question compared to the answer to the below question. Something to keep in mind is that "real world use" and the preferences inherent to such are going to vary from person to person. Arguing that ZTs are "inferior," "tired," or solutions seeking problems ignores that maybe those designs just aren't made for your "real world use." Personally, I have owned a couple Cold Steel folders and I sold them quickly. I currently own 2 Zero Tolerance folders and kick myself every day for selling 2 more. The Cold Steel folders are good knives, but I prefer harder blade steels and the designs that ZT uses.
 
I like Cold Steel for what it offers best, a strong lock, sufficient steel, and relatively low price.

I like ZT for what it offers best, strong construction, premium steel, and designs I like.

I'm glad that there is a variety of knives available to us knife nuts. :D
 
Cold steel best lock i have ever used next to spyderco compression lock. I baton threw a log with cold steel recon 1. But i would just get both lol both great
 
EBHM4 said:
Arguing that ZTs are "inferior," "tired,"...
Click to expand...
Inferior in design, yes. If you take the triad lock design, and throw the same level of materials at it, you will end up with something like a Demko AD10. And that knife is light years ahead of any folding knife that Kershaw has designed, or that the custom makers that have collaborated with them (most notably Onion, Strider, and Hinderer) have designed. It does everything an edged weapon/tool could be called upon to do better than any ZT ever released. Chop, stab, slice, cut (Kershaw could address the horrible blade geometry that is ZT's trademark if they wanted too, but gimmicks sell). And it is exponentially stronger.

When the materials are the same, the SUPERIOR DESIGN of Andrew Demko's leaves ZT in the dust.

What Demko's triad lock did to the folding knife world, is as ground breaking as what Browning's Hi-Power did for the semi automatic handgun world.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top