Cold Steel Spartan - fatal flaw for me

Muaddib1116 said:
I'll be honest, from what I've seen of the Scorpion lock, it's gonna be a bit of a bear to use as well, although it really depends on how Cold Steel implements it (just as it does for the Triad lock). It has the same primary (interface) feature that the triad lock does, which is huge engagement and huge lever throw. So if Cold Steel starts using it on knives and implements it with the same philosophy as they did the Triad lock (huge lock engagement with very stiff springs) then I'm not sure it's going to be that much easier to use.
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It should be just due to the fact that you'll have vastly greater leverage when operating it. You're lifting about as far from the pivot point on the lock as is possible, given the construction, that alone should make it much, much easier even if every other aspect of the lock is identical.
 
My code 4 was the same; I opened it about 1/3 of the way (to where it was pushing the spring down to max) and put it in a drawer for about two weeks. It has been fine ever since. Worth a try.
 
mykem said:
I knew you'd show up sooner or later. You can also open a Triad lock with no hands, using just your tongue, right?:D
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Indeed. But I don't do it often. It is just kind of gross, and people frown when they see me using my tongue to manipulate a knife they just used to slice their bagel........



Happy to oblige. (I can't really close the lock with my tongue. Trust me, I've tried....)
 
James Y said:
In fact, it loosened up enough that when I FOOLISHLY tried to unlock it one-handed, the blade swung shut right on the last knuckle of my right index finger. It put me out of work for 4 months, first with splinting (2 months), then with physical therapy to get the strength/range of motion back. I'm still doing therapy on my own for it. The accident was 9 months ago. So, as strong as the Triad lock is when in the locked position, my recommendation is to ALWAYS close a Triad locking knife with BOTH hands. I admit my accident was 100% user error, but so many people who tout lock strength as the only measure of safety tend to forget that such strong locks can make for a potentially more hazardous closing action that, in some instances, can almost negate any safety advantage it has in the open position.

Jim
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Jim,

Your accident interests me and I'd like to read more about it. Surely you posted more about it in the forum when it happened?

I searched and searched and couldn't find it. Would you be gracious enough to provide me with a link if you don't mind my learning from your experience?

Thanks.
 
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Of all my Tri-ad lock purchases, the only one that gave me trouble was a Spartan. I polished all the bearing surfaces and radiused the spring where it contacts the lock-bar.
Now it works great!
 
Bigfattyt said:
Indeed. But I don't do it often. It is just kind of gross, and people frown when they see me using my tongue to manipulate a knife they just used to slice their bagel........
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Between those strong hands and tongue, I bet you get a lot of dates.
 
hermit dave said:
Of all my Tri-ad lock purchases, the only one that gave me trouble was a Spartan. I polished all the bearing surfaces and radiused the spring where it contacts the lock-bar.
Now it works great!
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Cold Steel should have done that for you BEFORE you gave them your money.

How did you radius the spring?
 
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Insipid Moniker said:
It should be just due to the fact that you'll have vastly greater leverage when operating it. You're lifting about as far from the pivot point on the lock as is possible, given the construction, that alone should make it much, much easier even if every other aspect of the lock is identical.
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Yeah, it really depends how strong a spring they put on it. In my experience, the spring on the Triad lock is generally too strong, especially for how deep the lock engagement is. But as Demko has said in his lock test videos, they need to pass his lock abuse tests or they aren't released for sale, so the spring tension probably depends how the Scorpion performs in his tests.
 
mykem said:
Cold Steel should have done that for you BEFORE you gave them your money.

How did you radius the spring?
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I'm guessing he rounded out the tip of the leafspring that contacts the lockbar, so that it rubs more smoothly and doesn't bind up at all.
 
I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I've never owned a Triad I couldn't close.
I could just be lucky, but here's a thought: I notice a lot of people press on the center of the lock when closing a lockback. On a Triad, make sure you're pressing the rear half. You'd be amazed how much easier it is. If you already are, then I'm guessing it's a lemon.
 
Sounds like you got a defective knife. I think you did the right thing by sending it back. I wonder if the spring was too stiff, or if the lock had a rough surface that was mating with a rough surface on the blade tang causing them to stick, or both.

Some people, like myself, are "fixers". If we encounter a problem with a new knife, we like to fix it ourselves rather than send it back. But that's not for everyone. And the simple truth is- people shouldn't have to fix a new knife. The manufacturer should get it right the first time, or make it right if they let a defect slip past them.

Have you completely given up on that model, and Cold Steel altogether? I think that would be unfortunate. It's entirely possible that a different Spartan might be perfect and your favorite knife.
 
My 8 TriAds have been smooth except for the first one I got, the Recon 1. After a year of use, carrying, etc. it still has a stiff lock and even though my thumbs are now stronger (carrying aCS almost every day does wonders) most street people would have a hard time pressing down the lock with one hand.

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I still love it though and all my other TriAds smoothed out after a couple weeks or months.

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would you consider trying a rajah 3, i found that it is easier to open and close than my spartan and it has a similar blade shape, just in a smaller sleeker package
 
killgar said:
Sounds like you got a defective knife. I think you did the right thing by sending it back. I wonder if the spring was too stiff, or if the lock had a rough surface that was mating with a rough surface on the blade tang causing them to stick, or both.

Some people, like myself, are "fixers". If we encounter a problem with a new knife, we like to fix it ourselves rather than send it back. But that's not for everyone. And the simple truth is- people shouldn't have to fix a new knife. The manufacturer should get it right the first time, or make it right if they let a defect slip past them.

Have you completely given up on that knife, and Cold Steel altogether? I think that would be unfortunate. It's entirely possible that a different Spartan might be perfect and your favorite knife.
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Here's the deal. I've carried a waved Spyderco Endura 4 every day for years. Notice how it's lost some weight (shrunken belly:)). I've sharpened it many, many times.

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Yep, it's ugly as hell now but this knife is still a gem. I've never had a problem with it. Not one. And i got it when Spyderco first released them. I've had it and carried it for at least 10 years.

Anyway, I thought I might want something a little bigger, so I bought the Spartan, it has a bit more than a 1/2 inch longer blade than the Endura. I liked the CS and I liked the size BUT that Triad lock just proved to be too much of a major pain in the ass.

And please keep in mind, I opened and closed it 2,800 times (see the OP). I also passed it around a bit, including to a few "knife guys" who know blades. Everyone said things like, "Nice knife BUT that lock sucks," or some variation on that theme. Two specifically said the lock had to be "wrong" and to send it back to be made right.

I thought about it and concluded I'd just stick with the Endura. Cold Steel had their chance and blew it. I returned it to Amazon and Amazon payed the return shipping, so i lost nothing.

Maybe I should have given Cold Steel the chance to fix it. BUT they insisted i pay the shipping. Screw that and screw them.

I am convinced i got a Spartan with a bogus lock. And i'll be damned if i was going to pay to ship the thing back to CS to fix what should have been right to begin with.
 
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Did you ever try leaving it open at a 45° angle for a few days? That worked wonders for my 3 ak47's.
 
shinyedges said:
Did you ever try leaving it open at a 45° angle for a few days? That worked wonders for my 3 ak47's.
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I read about that. But there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I believe that applies to steel too.

I mean you're not opening it or closing it to "wear it in," right? So what is happening? I think you're somehow weakening the steel by stressing it.

I didn't want a weakened or stressed lock. I wanted one with a good, correct fit. And I didn't get one.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I'll be honest, from what I've seen of the Scorpion lock, it's gonna be a bit of a bear to use as well, although it really depends on how Cold Steel implements it (just as it does for the Triad lock). It has the same primary (interface) feature that the triad lock does, which is huge engagement and huge lever throw. So if Cold Steel starts using it on knives and implements it with the same philosophy as they did the Triad lock (huge lock engagement with very stiff springs) then I'm not sure it's going to be that much easier to use.
Click to expand...

I don't see how the Scorpion is really different from a traditional back lock, except being harder to unlock. The advantage of the Triad is that the stop pin also prevents the lock bar from being pulled off its pivot or being pushed into it. The Scorpion is just a huge back lock with no reinforcement near the blade pivot.
 
I guess.. Of the 5 CS folders I've done it too never a single failure of any kind. Perfection from a production product is rather difficult hence why "tolerances" are made and kept. Could be you got a lemon.

The ak's were stiff but after taking them apart and stripping the internal pieces that rubbed and reassembling along with leaving half open for awhile did the trick for me.
mykem said:
I read about that. But there's no such thing as a free lunch. And I believe that applies to steel too.

I mean you're not opening it or closing it to "wear it in," right? So what is happening? I think you're somehow weakening the steel by stressing it.

I didn't want a weakened or stressed lock. I wanted one with a good, correct fit. And I didn't get one.
Click to expand...
 
I have had at least twenty different Cold Steel folders with the Tri-Ad Lock.

Only one of them, an AUS-8A part-serrated, Spear-Point version had an extremely stiff lock brand new, out of all of these.

It did break-in with constant opening and closing though.

The technique used to close the Tri-Ad Lock is very important:

I have noticed that most people that go to close it tend to keep their thumb in-line with the knife handle and use the very front "pad" of their thumb to press down on the lockbar release.

That doesn't work very well when dealing with the Tri-Ad Lock!

I hold the knife in my hand so that my thumb is 90-degrees over the lockbar release section and press down.

I use my thumb right where the knuckle line (very little skin or flesh "pad") is and it works the best for me.

I also recommend closing folding knives two-handed for safety purposes. It isn't as convenient as doing it one-handed. But it is better to be safe than injured!
 
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