Cold Steel Success

338375 said:
This is someting I have never understood... I can see having to baton a knife in a true survival situation, but I would bet that the number of people on BF's, that have been in an actual 100% survival situation, could be counted on one hand.
Click to expand...

I just spent a week at the beach with my in-laws, so there. Used my knife everyday to cut squid for fishing so I could go off by myself. Don't tell me about survival.
 
Ankerson said:
Having both great geometry and great steel is even better. ;)
Click to expand...

Of course! Good steel & bad geometry < bad steel & good geometry < good steel & good geometry.

philwar said:
Yeah yeah yeah, I've heard all that before. Geometry, HT, design, and it's all true. OF COURSE we will assume everything else remains the same or gets better, why would a company screw up a perfectly good design when incorporating a better steel?
All other factors being equal, a Recon 1 will be a better knife if it has a better steel.
Click to expand...

Because a lot of knife design these days is based around looks and material hype. That's not to say that materials aren't actually getting better, but the degree to which they're better and their cost/benefit ratio tends to get blown out of proportion. So new hyped up materials and a cool looking design that can stab through cars often ends up winning the buyer over better than a simple and efficient design of good geometry and humble materials. Not saying that's necessarily what's going on here, but it's a common industry catch 22.
 
Ankerson said:
Having both great geometry and great steel is even better. ;)
Click to expand...

Kind of off topic but about geometry and cutting.

Funny thing about steel and geometry I encountered. I recently replce a 17 yr old top of the line LaZboy recliner. It had very rugged fabric covering the whole chair. A very expensive piece of furniture.

I asked my wife, if before we took it apart and out to our burn pile, if I could make some cuts with a few of my folders into the back cushions to see which ones slashed & cut longer and deeper.

I used a "hair whittling" sharpened S30V Military and a factory sharp XM-18 that had only been stropped. To me it was a no brainer - the Military would slice it to ribbons.

The portions were the head rest area and the next one down (neck and shoulders) which had a lot of stuffing under the fabric.

Lo and behold, the longest cut with the Military was about 2 inches long and on a couple of cuts the stuffing & fabric caught the blade and twisted the handle in my hand at about an inch or so in. Massive FAIL.

I slashed the XM-18 3.5" CTS-XHP blade into areas that were available (most of the test sections) and that knife buried into the stuffing and fabric and cut it as clean as a scalpel on flesh. I powered through the full range of cut without a hitch. I made 12" to 18" cuts over and over without a hitch.

Needless to say I was very surprised to see this knife open the head rest almost from one side of the chair to the other without any problem at all.

I didn't use a bowie knife (I could have but didn't think of it) but I think the weight of the knife has a something to do with my experience. I have a new respect for thicker blades now if properly sharpened.
 
I think what you experienced there was the difference in tip geometry affecting performance. The tip of the XM-18 has more belly to it, presenting the edge at the tip to the cutting medium in a more parallel manner, which provides a better slicing stroke when employed in that manner as compared to the Military's straighter and more acute tip which would be more prone towards snagging as it's dragged across a material. :)

I bet you this puppy would have bested both of them in that test!

SVFK.jpg
 
cziv said:
Kind of off topic but about geometry and cutting.

Funny thing about steel and geometry I encountered. I recently replce a 17 yr old top of the line LaZboy recliner. It had very rugged fabric covering the whole chair. A very expensive piece of furniture.

I asked my wife, if before we took it apart and out to our burn pile, if I could make some cuts with a few of my folders into the back cushions to see which ones slashed & cut longer and deeper.

I used a "hair whittling" sharpened S30V Military and a factory sharp XM-18 that had only been stropped. To me it was a no brainer - the Military would slice it to ribbons.

The portions were the head rest area and the next one down (neck and shoulders) which had a lot of stuffing under the fabric.

Lo and behold, the longest cut with the Military was about 2 inches long and on a couple of cuts the stuffing & fabric caught the blade and twisted the handle in my hand at about an inch or so in. Massive FAIL.

I slashed the XM-18 3.5" CTS-XHP blade into areas that were available (most of the test sections) and that knife buried into the stuffing and fabric and cut it as clean as a scalpel on flesh. I powered through the full range of cut without a hitch. I made 12" to 18" cuts over and over without a hitch.

Needless to say I was very surprised to see this knife open the head rest almost from one side of the chair to the other without any problem at all.

I didn't use a bowie knife (I could have but didn't think of it) but I think the weight of the knife has a something to do with my experience. I have a new respect for thicker blades now if properly sharpened.
Click to expand...


Edge finish could have had something to do with that also.
 
Yes, but in particular the geometry of the profile more so than the sectional geometry--at least that's what I think.
 
cziv said:
Kind of off topic but about geometry and cutting.

Funny thing about steel and geometry I encountered. I recently replce a 17 yr old top of the line LaZboy recliner. It had very rugged fabric covering the whole chair. A very expensive piece of furniture.

I asked my wife, if before we took it apart and out to our burn pile, if I could make some cuts with a few of my folders into the back cushions to see which ones slashed & cut longer and deeper.

I used a "hair whittling" sharpened S30V Military and a factory sharp XM-18 that had only been stropped. To me it was a no brainer - the Military would slice it to ribbons.

The portions were the head rest area and the next one down (neck and shoulders) which had a lot of stuffing under the fabric.

Lo and behold, the longest cut with the Military was about 2 inches long and on a couple of cuts the stuffing & fabric caught the blade and twisted the handle in my hand at about an inch or so in. Massive FAIL.

I slashed the XM-18 3.5" CTS-XHP blade into areas that were available (most of the test sections) and that knife buried into the stuffing and fabric and cut it as clean as a scalpel on flesh. I powered through the full range of cut without a hitch. I made 12" to 18" cuts over and over without a hitch.

Needless to say I was very surprised to see this knife open the head rest almost from one side of the chair to the other without any problem at all.

I didn't use a bowie knife (I could have but didn't think of it) but I think the weight of the knife has a something to do with my experience. I have a new respect for thicker blades now if properly sharpened.
Click to expand...

Well, we can certainly conclude that under those conditions, with your technique, the XM-18 is far superior for the application. Would the results have been the same if, say, Vin Diesel did the test? I don't know. Could the handle grip have played a major part in the effectiveness of the XM-18, perhaps allowing you to transfer more energy to the cut? Perhaps. My point is that under your particular conditions, the result speaks for itself, but does it speak for all? We can't know because others have not tried to repeat the experiment. Besides, you would soon run out of La-Z-Boy chairs. ;)
 
A.P.F. said:
Well, we can certainly conclude that under those conditions, with your technique, the XM-18 is far superior for the application. Would the results have been the same if, say, Vin Diesel did the test? I don't know. Could the handle grip have played a major part in the effectiveness of the XM-18, perhaps allowing you to transfer more energy to the cut? Perhaps. My point is that under your particular conditions, the result speaks for itself, but does it speak for all? We can't know because others have not tried to repeat the experiment. Besides, you would soon run out of La-Z-Boy chairs. ;)
Click to expand...

I saved the chair! I suppose the next run would be to use my CS Voyager in VG-1 and run it against the Military or maybe a Recon-1 AUS8.

The cuts I made were full body cuts (hard slashing cuts). The impression or feedback I got, from what I felt in my hand and arm was that the Military was too light and the Hinderer powered through the material by momentum. Both had follow through effort until the stopped dead from resistance.

Btw, I can cut harder than Vin Diesel! :D
 
cziv said:
I saved the chair! I suppose the next run would be to use my CS Voyager in VG-1 and run it against the Military or maybe a Recon-1 AUS8.

The cuts I made were full body cuts (hard slashing cuts). The impression or feedback I got, from what I felt in my hand and arm was that the Military was too light and the Hinderer powered through the material by momentum. Both had follow through effort until the stopped dead from resistance.

Btw, I can cut harder than Vin Diesel! :D
Click to expand...

Now I am trying to get the image out of my head, of a torn to rat s**t La-Z-Boy, standing center stage in cziv's back yard, with a neighbour looking over the fence. :)
 
cziv said:
Hey that's my line! :D
Click to expand...
Sorry! Couldn't resist! :D

I think Cold Steel has found their market, and is happily selling their "low grade steel" to them, plus with the type of advertising that we all find over the top they are catching a lot of the less knowledgeable and first time knife buyers because they say they are the best so of course they are! I mean Case could probably make some money if they made a line of tactical knives, but why should they? Case and Cold Steel have both carved out a nice customer base selling to the choir as it were, why rock the boat?
 
Last edited:
A.P.F. said:
Now I am trying to get the image out of my head, of a torn to rat s**t La-Z-Boy, standing center stage in cziv's back yard, with a neighbour looking over the fence. :)
Click to expand...

Hah hah - I have one neighbor at least 1/4 mile or more up the road with lot's of natural trees & buildings that act as a mega-privacy fence. In all 3 other directions there's nothing bu farmland and Great Lakes water. I can walk outside naked and take a leek without a soul being able to see.

I live on several acres with no neighbors in sight in any direction. A few years ago I cut loose with my .357 into some bottles in front of the woodpile, that has a barn and a cement block garage behind it. A local rookie cop came zooming up our driveway.

I held my revolver in the air and handed it to my wife. Then I walked up to his cruiser and told him I was teaching my wife how to shoot. He apologized profusely and said the sound triggered some kind of a "check it out" response in him. He left with a wave and a smile.

Our range is cop certified. Our chairs are fair game for torching, cutting or whatever. I am blessed to live in my little bit of Heaven on Earth - except the lawn mowing can take up to 6 hours unless we both do it which cuts down on time considerably.
 
Professor said:
I just spent a week at the beach with my in-laws, so there. Used my knife everyday to cut squid for fishing so I could go off by myself. Don't tell me about survival.
Click to expand...

A week with the in-laws is a true test of will :D Did you have to baton the squid ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top