Cold steel vs CRKT suit and claims made by each

I hope Cold Steel loses the lawsuit. Frivolous lawsuits are a huge drag on our legal system. Having said that, I remain a huge Cold Steel fan (mostly because my American Lawman is such an awesome hard-working knife). I plan to continue to support CS with knife purchases.
 
chucknduck said:
My issue with this entire thing is the hypocrisy behind it. Looking at it @ face value, Cold Steel seems to have a valid gripe. But when every piece of literature related to Cold Steel says "Worlds Strongest and Sharpest knives," then I think that is what really irks myself and many others. Cold Steel promotes to make the worlds sharpest knife much more commonly than CRKT refers to their Lawks folders as "virtual fixed blade."

I read the explanation from Lynn Thompson and he brings up the issue of safety. Personally, ive only ever seen one serious knife injury. And it happened when I was working at a certain knife retailer when the heavy spring pressure from a Triad Lock on a Cold Steel Talwar that didn't open all the way closed back down meeting up with the guys fingers. Unfortunately it resulted in nerve repair surgery. I would bet many many more users are injured from opening and closing lock backs and slip joints under spring pressure than are injured from mechanical lock failure by a massive margin.

Just my .02 cent though. I haven't read the other mentioned thread but im sure all this was (hopefully) discussed.
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And how is the fact that someone did not fully open and lock a knife, CS's fault? I did this exact same thing with a Benchmade CqC7 and it folded on my fingers nearly cutting my index finger off. It was my fault. I did not assure that I had fully opened the knife before putting massive pressure. Not defending CS, but before you start asking explanations an indepth explanation of evens would be required to see if it wasn't operator error first.
 
Cobalt said:
And how is the fact that someone did not fully open and lock a knife, CS's fault? I did this exact same thing with a Benchmade CqC7 and it folded on my fingers nearly cutting my index finger off. It was my fault. I did not assure that I had fully opened the knife before putting massive pressure. Not defending CS, but before you start asking explanations an indepth explanation of evens would be required to see if it wasn't operator error first.
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Sorry, I think you must have misunderstood me. That was my point. It was an accident. It wasnt the knife's fault. I was trying to point out that injuries from knives to the operator way more often then not comes from accidents, not locks failing as Lynn Thompson claims in his statement.
 
There was a massive 20 some odd page thread on this already, perhaps it's time to just shrug it off until there are some actual developments.
 
Monofletch said:
I wonder how many sales will be lost because of this silly lawsuit?
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Should be none, if not just CRKT because of faulty lawking mechanism (conjunction junction, that's my function). I'll never understand why ppl take company politics out on the knives themselves. But they will take the inferior product over the superior because they don't agree with what the company that makes the superior product is doing.
 
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chucknduck said:
Sorry, I think you must have misunderstood me. That was my point. It was an accident. It wasnt the knife's fault. I was trying to point out that injuries from knives to the operator way more often then not comes from accidents, not locks failing as Lynn Thompson claims in his statement.
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Ah, lol, got it. So I helped make your point....
 
chucknduck said:
My issue with this entire thing is the hypocrisy behind it. Looking at it @ face value, Cold Steel seems to have a valid gripe. But when every piece of literature related to Cold Steel says "Worlds Strongest and Sharpest knives," then I think that is what really irks myself and many others. Cold Steel promotes to make the worlds sharpest knife much more commonly than CRKT refers to their Lawks folders as "virtual fixed blade."

I read the explanation from Lynn Thompson and he brings up the issue of safety. Personally, ive only ever seen one serious knife injury. And it happened when I was working at a certain knife retailer when the heavy spring pressure from a Triad Lock on a Cold Steel Talwar that didn't open all the way closed back down meeting up with the guys fingers. Unfortunately it resulted in nerve repair surgery. I would bet many many more users are injured from opening and closing lock backs and slip joints under spring pressure than are injured from mechanical lock failure by a massive margin.

Just my .02 cent though. I haven't read the other mentioned thread but im sure all this was (hopefully) discussed.
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I agree completely regarding the "worlds strongest and Sharpest knives". I could care less about the Tri-Ad Lock strength vs CRKTs design, but when they make a claim about being the "Sharpest Knives" it is laughable. I have never had a complaint about the sharpness of my 3 CS knives, but they were by no means the sharpest I have every had. I actually really like my mini Recon 1 but have simply been put off by CS as of late.
 
Jonslaught said:
SI'll never understand why ppl take company politics out on the knives themselves. But they will take the inferior product over the superior because they don't agree with what the company that makes the superior product is doing.
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Perhaps the product really isn't superior if people won't buy it.

I use knives to cut; so blades, edge geometry, and real world cutting ability is what I look at first.

Maybe the purportedly superior product isn't good at cutting so that's why it's failing. In other words the emperor has no clothes.
 
I noticed that on the Cold Steel website it appears that the "World's Strongest & Sharpest Knives" has been replaced by "Anytime Anywhere" since I last looked anyway. The about us section includes language such as, "dedicated to making the strongest, sharpest knives in the world" and "constantly striving to made the world's strongest, sharpest knives". I have no idea if this change is directly related to the lawsuit of if was simply a change in marketing but I think the change is a positive one.
 
If anyone is interested in what each side in the lawsuit is alleging it should be possible to get access to the pleadings in the case unless for some reason they have been sealed. But, having some acquaintance with lawsuits, i would not get too excited about it or too critical of either side. It's just business.

Anybody with a lick of sense knows that sometimes manufacturers and vendors exagerrate a little or say things that you know should not be taken literally. The legal term for that is "puffery". The nonlegal term is common sense.

For many, many years I've enjoyed lynn's puffery and his promotional gifts. But I'm not fool enough to believe everything literally. And if sometimes they go too far, OK, dial it back a little. Cold Steel makes excellent knives. I bought a Carbon V Trailmaster based on some of the hype, and it's a great knife but a grain of salt, please. Busse are spectacular knives, and I do prefer them, but you think all the old promotional stuff there didn't have iuts share of puffery.

I have my issues with Cold Steel. What the hell were you thinking with that Kraton handle on the Trailmaster? But this lawsuit is for the lawyers. They usually are anyway.
 
Brisket said:
I noticed that on the Cold Steel website it appears that the "World's Strongest & Sharpest Knives" has been replaced by "Anytime Anywhere" since I last looked anyway. The about us section includes language such as, "dedicated to making the strongest, sharpest knives in the world" and "constantly striving to made the world's strongest, sharpest knives". I have no idea if this change is directly related to the lawsuit of if was simply a change in marketing but I think the change is a positive one.
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The motto may not be litersally true, and obviously I don't think it can be, but if you put it in quotation marks, like several other mottos, it should be apparent it's not a literal claim. But a judge might think otherwise. Is Cliff Stamp going to give expert evidence?
 
Though there are always exceptions, knife guys tend to be self-reliant and responsible, and willing to accept both the credit for something good and the blame when it goes bad. Cold Steel's lawsuit - in my view - runs afoul of these "knife guy" principles, because rather than fighting it out in the marketplace like a knife guy would do by making better knives than the competition and selling more of them, it comes across as a crybaby maneuver. Its the equivalent of running to mommy and telling her that Billy kicked you in the shins. That's not a what a knife guy would do. And in the instant case, CRKT never actually kicked you in the shins - and you are running to mommy anyway. I think that's what really burns us.

Another facet to this thing is that Cold Steel does not appears to allege actual damages (see here). So at its essence, and because it is asserting a statutory rather than a common law claim, Cold Steel is asking legislators (who knife guys almost universally despise) and judges (who we often despise) to take CRKT's money from them against their will, for "damages" that don't actually exist, and to give it to Cold Steel. This too is a major crybaby move, and wholly in opposition to the knife guy principle.

Cold Steel, I love your knives, your Tri-ad lock, your Micro Recon 1, your marketing, and your chubby fellow hacking at bags of meat. I own probably 30 of your knives, which have paid for a lot of hanging meat. But we knife guys want you to lose this lawsuit so you'll learn to play fair and square.
 
That was good, powernoodle, and you didn't allow the pettiness to impact your view of the products themselves. :thumbup:

powernoodle said:
I own probably 30 of your knives, which have paid for a lot of hanging meat.
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Which have been carefully preserved and donated to the Ventura County Rescue Mission! :thumbup::thumbup:
 
I hear circus music and one of the two companies is run by a guy that looks and acts like a clown. Great products, Jr High ad campaigns, and piss poor business practices. What a combo.
 
I prefer to use my wallet to make my statements.I just won't buy CS until it's squashed. I think it's petty posturing and nothing more. I may never buy them again cause the whole knife police attitude is wrong Imo.
 
JBC6650 said:
I hear circus music and one of the two companies is run by a guy that looks and acts like a clown. Great products, Jr High ad campaigns, and piss poor business practices. What a combo.
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Don't be sad, 1 out of 3 ain't bad. Meat Loaf lol.

I prefer to use my wallet to make my statements.I just won't buy CS until it's squashed. I think it's petty posturing and nothing more. I may never buy them again cause the whole knife police attitude is wrong Imo.
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Until the suit is squashed or until CS is squashed, because the latter ain't gonna happen. I agree its petty and the fact CS wants to have CRKT pay them for money gained on false promises is bullshit, but that ain't a reason to deprive yourself of pretty great products. There could be a model of theirs down the road, many in 2015, that you could want, and you would let a little squabbling stand in the way?

As for the suit, if the removal of the slogan "virtual fixed blade" was the only thing aimed at, that would be good. Any claim that fails that bad deserves far worse.

Though if Cold Steel does manage to win, would you retract your statement if they donated the money to the Ventura County Rescue Mission? (even if the money was first used to buy a mountain of meat for cutting tests, which would then be donated to said fund?)
 
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