Cold steel vs CRKT suit and claims made by each

bld522 said:
Admittedly so. But if you can't suspend an elephant from its blade without the lock failing, is it safe to use? :confused: ;)

Until the knife industry establishes a standard for the amount of weight a knife safety has to be able to hold without failing before it can be certified as "safe", we're just shooting in the dark, ladies and gentlemen. The safety standard I set for myself is just as good as the safety standard anyone else sets for themselves. So what's my safety standard? I figure if I can suspend a carton of 20-lb printer paper . . . 50 lbs give or take . . . off of a blade without the lock failing, the lock is plenty strong enough to keep me from hurting myself. That means that I would consider knives like the CRKT M16 and the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 perfectly safe knives to use. And of course any Cold Steel knife with a Tri-Ad lock would easily fall into my "safe" knives category. :thumbup: Elephants beware! :D
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It shouldn't be up to "the industry" to decide squat - it should be up to the customer to decide what they want.

If we let "the industry" decide, it's going to turn out just like America has - where the President and Federal government, which is specifically limited by The Constitution, arbitrarily decided "what's best for the People" - a President, who dictates by Executive Order - and against and regardless of, the sovereignty of the States and the People.

in other words, fascism - but in this case, by and FOR "The Industry"

Let them dictate what is and can be, limits what anyone may do [as a competitor]. So any multimillion dollar company can effectively shut out the up-and-coming company by the [idiotic] "rules" they concoct.

No. The People, in this case "customer," dictates what they want by the purchases they make [or not make].
 
bld522 said:
Thanks, Thomas. That would certainly explain it. Now all we have to do is wait and see whether the suit actually changes anything. And the only indicator we've got is whether CRKT modifies its "virtual fixed blade" claim in reference to its LAWKS and AutoLAWKS systems. They haven't changed it so far and my bet is they won't. But time will tell. Meanwhile those who are interested can keep track of developments on this page:

http://www.crkt.com/knifeinnovations
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How much money? CRKT, no longer uses the words "virtual" nor "fixed blade" in their advertising of the Lawks or AutoLawks system.

Looks like the suit accomplished more than the "nothing" that some have claimed.
 
And Cold Steel still uses "virtually indestructible."

So it's no longer pot and kettle since only Cod Steel uses the offensive adjective.

Quite an accomplishment.
 
Cold Steel's virtual claims hold more water than CRKTs. Like, for example, when they run over a Brooklyn Smasher with a pickup and say it is virtually unbreakable -- it is.

CRKT's virtual fixed blade claim on a folder and have that folder nearly fail with one 45 lb plate on it, doesn't hold weight -- figuratively and literally.

It shouldn't be an issue that CS uses that word if it is applicable to the product it is applied to, which is clearly not the case with the LAWKS knife that spurred Cold Steel into doing this.
 
As has been discussed, "virtual," like Cold Steel's "virtually," means not actually. Nothing is actually indestructible and, by definition, no folding knife is a fixed-blade knife.

It would be as silly to sue Cold Steel for "virtually" as to sue another company for "virtual." Cold Steel's statement that several products that its sells are "virtually" indestructible is perfectly acceptable puffery - words that suggest positive attributes but have no exact meaning, like "Astonishing," "Battle-ready," "Classic," "Combat," "Superior," "Tactical," etc.
 
Thomas Linton said:
And Cold Steel still uses "virtually indestructible."

So it's no longer pot and kettle since only Cold Steel uses the offensive adjective.

Quite an accomplishment.
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WOW! That's quite an accomplishment indeed. And congrats to ursamajor for spotting it. :thumbup:

So the final score appears to be Cold Steel 1, CRKT 0.

Now the only thing that's left to deal with is the "real fixed-blade" RAO folder that Extrema Ratio produces. I wonder what if anything Cold Steel intends to do about that claim.
 
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I think "Tactical" has an exact meaning. I attribute it to the use of "tactics" with a knife. Like the ease of grip changes, changing of directions mid swing, traction and handle ergonomics, reach, etc. I think tactical is a legit term.

I was not aware they took it down. Good. Though I won't call any winners here, except myself, cuz from the original thread, this is what I personally wanted to happen. Suing for money was ridiculous, I only wanted the "fixed blade" draw-in targeted to deter the possible injuries that could take place for the customers buying a fixed blade in folder form. Imagine the damage "Veff" serrations would do if the blade would close on them. The Veff serrations are one of the only tests CRKT administer in video form and they are effective. Think 4 karambit blades stacked on top of each other. Great serration design. Those would look great on a Recon 1 or any CS folder. I want my Veff and Tri-Ad too!

EDIT: I think Lynn should give Tom Veff a call.

I used the Smasher as my example cuz i think it uses virtual more correctly than any other item in existence. It will never break in any baseball game or performing any smashing tasks (Though I'm sure if you keep it in a meat locker all night long and swing at the pavement, it may snap in half), but at the same time, you can take a hacksaw to it.
 
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Jonslaught said:
I was not aware they took it down. Good. Though I won't call any winners here, except myself, cuz from the original thread, this is what I personally wanted to happen. Suing for money was ridiculous, I only wanted the "fixed blade" draw-in targeted to deter the possible injuries that could take place for the customers buying a fixed blade in folder form. Imagine the damage "Veff" serrations would do if the blade would close on them. The Veff serrations are one of the only tests CRKT administer in video form and they are effective. Think 4 karambit blades stacked on top of each other. Great serration design. Those would look great on a Recon 1 or any CS folder. I want my Veff and Tri-Ad too!
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The only thing I'm sad about is that the court system never got the opportunity to deal with the definition of the word "virtual". I'd love to have an opinion on what that word means in legalese. Other than that, I'm pretty ambivalent about the outcome. But if CS was willing to go to court over it and they got CRKT to capitulate, I don't see how that could be scored as anything other than a win for CS unless, of course, you attribute the sudden disappearance of the term "virtual fixed blade" on the CRKT site to mere coincidence.

So now that the CRKT lawsuit is behind us, is it time to turn our attention the "real fixed-blade" RAO? One thing's for sure. Unlike the word "virtual", there's very little wiggle room in the word "real". And if someone doesn't take Extrema Ratio to task over it, they will manufacture the only "real fixed blade" folder on the planet. ;)
 
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I ain gonna lie, had to google the word 'ambivalent'... I guess it is a win for CS then. I feel like CS was after something more then that. What they got was the more meaningful outcome. 'Capitulate'? Google... I wish they did this on their own. Its kind of embarrassing to lose it in a case especially after it failed so hard. It created a buzz in knife world, with many eyes on them. Their new description of the LAWKS and their other locks (because they ALL had the VFB associated with them) describe them more fittingly.

In regards to the RAO, there's very little wiggle room for the blade even if you disengage the lock too.
 
Jonslaught said:
In regards to the RAO, there's very little wiggle room for the blade even if you disengage the lock too.
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The RAO remains the elephant in the living room. There's just no way around it. As far as I'm concerned, until CS confronts it, their claim as producing the strongest folding knives on the planet is up for grabs.
 
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On the Facebook page, Cold Steel said they would be donating any damages they win in the suit would be donated to Kniferights. Can a Cold Steel rep confirm that this was done?
 
Great question, although Cold Steel may be prohibited from discussing any of the settlement details under the terms of the non-disclosure agreement. Let's see what if anything the moderator has to say about it . . .
 
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No worries. I, for one, am not expecting any official information from CS due to the non-disclosure agreement. I'm just glad ursamajor kept an eye on the CRKT site for us. Otherwise we might not have known the outcome. :)

PS: I know, I know. No comment. But go ahead and sip a little bit of the bubbly for me anyway. ;) :D
 
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All i want to say is that it was devastating to watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iAd7HdEoo
And it surely raises some questions in regards to anyone going into harms way with the real possibility of extreme usage in a given said professkon
In regards to the integrity of the crkt model that was jointly put to the test..
 
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