Cold Steel's Kabar Clone

Jester60 said:
So any fixed blade knife in the 6 1/2 - 7" length with a clip point and and round pommel is a ripoff of Kabar? Perhaps we should talk to the numerous custom makers who turn out 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 drop point blades, put a slightly different contour on the handle or a different finish on the steel and give them a model designation that suits them and it's a different knife from the other 75 out there?

As for other unique designs, I can see that, esp the MUK and WSK (I'm not familiar with the Grohmann and the Nessmuk, from what I understand is a very old design named after Geo. Sears, was basicly a skinner pattern that I can only imagine the style of which goes back hundreds of years.) I guess it would be a bit crass for me to mention that the Kabar in question wasn't a totally original design either, drawing from the USN Mk 1 as well as several civilian hunting/utility knives such as Westerns L76 and L77.

As far as I know, both Kabar and Cold Steel are US companies and I would imagine if there were some sort of infringement that Kabar would have a course of remedy in the Court system and I could only imagine that, if they owned some sort of license to the pattern of the USMC fighting knife it would be valuable enough to protect.

I still think it boils down to if you don't like it, don't buy it.
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amusingly, more cold steels were made by camlllus ;) than not. all that "carbon-v"...

this new cold steel looks like a SRK? iirc. which is cold steels own pattern right?

as for the nessmuk, i'm led to believe the design is nessmuk's alone. nothing prior to that exists that i know of.

i can, with a little pondering, and looking at my off beat collection, figure out some other patterns that are relatively unique... but still, if it's made, someone WILL copy it. innovation is wonderful but hard. copying ... is easy.

don't get me started on locking mechanisms either :)

hawg knives. besh wedge. sharpened pry-bars :)

various khukri patterns that aren't actually khukris...

some old, world patterns don't have authors per se. ulus for instance. many copies.

i'm not a knife historian, but i'm all about ... mmm ... intellectual authenticity being a software engineer. one learns from examples, but as a writer and poet of code, one strives to be ... unique.

one word to the wise: if you make a true copy, people WILL notice, and they will tell, and many will be offended. if your word is your bond, then you will lose it. i've said this before, and i'll likely be a kill joy and say it again.

cold steel makes some unique things. they should keep to that. so should many others ;)
 
moosez45 said:
I like to see USA on my knives, so, in my mind, no real competition here, just good steel, made by two different companies is all.
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I can agree with that, the 2 Cold Steel fixed blade knives I have both have USA on them as do the 3 Kabars I have (none of them the USMC fighter). Personally, my preference in a combat bowie would have abt a 9" blade and have black, Grivory on the handles. ;)

Jester
 
I don't know why everyone hates on cold steel. Anything I have ever gotten from them has been great. My K-bar I got is another story.... one of the most uneven grinds i have ever seen...
 
I'm a fan of both Cold Steel and KA-BAR. And IIRC, Camillus was one of the biggest producers of "Ka-bar" knives. Ka-bar just got the marketing down, much as people complain about Cold Steel doing. In fact, the first "KA-BAR" knives were designed based on the Mark I trench knife (also not designed by Union Cutlery), and done in collaboration between some military officers, and Camillus.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out, Union Cutlery was not the biggest producer of the Ka-Bar knife; Camillus was. And I think Camillus even shipped the very first shipment of the knife we know know as the KA-BAR. So why do we call them KA-BAR's today? Perhaps because of the KA-BAR stamp, which was much larger and more obvious than the Camillus mark (and, perhaps, like the Cold Steel trademark). As the single most ubiquitous knife of its time, and with 1 million copies having that big trademark, small wonder that the company has now become the KA-BAR Cutlery Company.

Given that history, I hardly think this is reason to hate Cold Steel. If anything, it's a tribute to the mighty USMC knife that has become known as the KA-BAR. It's one of the most common fighting knife designs in modern history. Honestly, if Cold Steel DIDN'T have their own rendition, I would be very disappointed. On a semi-related note, I really like my new CS Kobun. Heck of a good concealable blade for $25.
 
Y'all better hate Ontario, and don't forget Boker. Both made the same knife. Most of the combat knives of WWII were made by multiple knife mfgrs that were all commissioned by the US gov't to make the same knives. Cold steel is another just making a pretty faithful reproduction. They haven't claimed at all to have created something new here. Look at the name, and you'll see the reference to the origins (please don't ask for an explanation, just google it).

Just another reason to bash Cold Steel by a few of you though. If you don't like them, don't buy them, but get your facts straight.
 
if i base my opinion on looks alone there is a big resemblance CS towards knifes from other companies. SRK = Fallkniven F1, GI Tanto = Strider (don't know the model name), Leatherneck = Kabar and we all seen the Canadian Belt Knife from a other company. Cold steel has many knife based on classic designs. Like the tanto, Gurkha Kukri , Latin Machetes, Gladius or butterfly knife. But isn’t this part of the item ‘’knife’’ as a steel cutting instrument with a handle for safe use. 100 different function, 100 different knifes and 100 different ways to design the knife for a specific function that come down to a specific design.

Between all knife's and knife companies there are resemblance. Us knife heads see the equality and difference right away but this does not mean that it’s a direct copy. So it looks like copies yes and no….better a good design stolen then a bad created concept/draft. Luckily we are free in our own choice.

There are good and terrible CS knives around, buy if you like and turn away from if it sucks. From the 2 cold steel knifes I own I sold my Kukri Machete because it was not what I was looking for. I kept my GI Tanto for modifying, throwing and stabbing washing machines. For those tasks its perfect ;) but I will keep my BK7 next to me anywhere outdoors.
 
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Got no dog in this fight since I own and like CS and KB knives. But I'd be real interested in a side-by-side of this CS knife and Toooj's Heavy Bowie.
 
I know where my money lies. And it's not on Cold Steel in that contest. Their cheaper knives are great value, and if you can find their San Mai at a non-ridiculous price (got the peace keeper 1 for 90 bucks, which wasn't awful), they do have some pretty nice stuff. But I don't know that I would bet on CS against many of the brands that I trust.
 
crimsonfalcon07 said:
I'm a fan of both Cold Steel and KA-BAR. And IIRC, Camillus was one of the biggest producers of "Ka-bar" knives. Ka-bar just got the marketing down, much as people complain about Cold Steel doing. In fact, the first "KA-BAR" knives were designed based on the Mark I trench knife (also not designed by Union Cutlery), and done in collaboration between some military officers, and Camillus.

Furthermore, as has been pointed out, Union Cutlery was not the biggest producer of the Ka-Bar knife; Camillus was. And I think Camillus even shipped the very first shipment of the knife we know know as the KA-BAR. So why do we call them KA-BAR's today? Perhaps because of the KA-BAR stamp, which was much larger and more obvious than the Camillus mark (and, perhaps, like the Cold Steel trademark). As the single most ubiquitous knife of its time, and with 1 million copies having that big trademark, small wonder that the company has now become the KA-BAR Cutlery Company.

Given that history, I hardly think this is reason to hate Cold Steel. If anything, it's a tribute to the mighty USMC knife that has become known as the KA-BAR. It's one of the most common fighting knife designs in modern history. Honestly, if Cold Steel DIDN'T have their own rendition, I would be very disappointed. ....
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The Mk I Trench Knife was a diamond profile dagger with brass knuckle grip. In short, nothing like the Mk II Fighting and Utiility Knife, AKA "Ka-Bar." Every "authority" says the MK II was a variation of the very, very popular (at the time) Marble's "Ideal," but with the fuller in the wrong place due to ignorance about why Marble's put the fuller just behind the primary bevel, instead of the middle of the flat as in the MK II.

The MK I of WWII was mostly flat-ground with most having a small lower guard. There were variations with fullers and double guards , but the blade was always about 2" shorter than the Mk II

The most-produced military sheath knife of WWII seems to have been the Cattaraugus 225Q, mainly issued to the Army (but some to Marines), but the 225Q lacks the sex-appeal and Marine association of the MK II.

Again, the OP's knife does not look like a MK II in any aspect except the double guard and a type of clip-point, which are hardly unique features. Much better examples of CS copying have been mentioned.
 
I think what will be interesting is if KaBar decides to produce a larger version of the MK1 (which to me this thing looks identical to, but with a longer blade). Then who is copying who? Would KaBar be accused of copying Cold Steel?
 
If only Ka-Bar would copy cold steel, and add the features that some people who have carried the Ka-Bar have said would make it much more user friendly. Am I the only one who thinks there will be a new run on Ka-Bars like that? It is a well loved and respected knife, but it has some faults for all around use.

Slight flats on the side of the stacked leather handle.
Full height flat grind.
And a minor choil.
Slightly thicker, longer guard.

I remember Reading an article written by a service member in the mid-90's, who basically prescribed those features verbatim.
 
IIRC, Bo Randall designed his #1 as an improvment on the KA-BAR. So I guess if we're hating Cold Steel, we are hating Randall Made Knives, too.
 
Flamethrower said:
IIRC, Bo Randall designed his #1 as an improvment on the KA-BAR. So I guess if we're hating Cold Steel, we are hating Randall Made Knives, too.
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Actually as I understand it, no. The Randall #1, was a customer submitted drawing and request for a knife. It was called at that point the Zacharias knife. He declined to make it at first, and later changing his mind made it and sent it to the service member who submitted the request. It was after all of that it was added to the Randall lineup as the Model #1.
 
Wow, Ka-bar clone? That's pretty harsh. What about other brands that have a similar knife design such as Ontario, Boker, etc? This new leatherneck-sf seems more like a smaller Recon Scout to me, of which nothing but good reviews have supported. That handle looks very functional and grippy, and blade grind (FFG, not saber) seems like a smarter direction.

Although I have respect for Ka-bar and its history, they too have designs that aren't entirely original or theirs to begin with. Their new folding knives look like Strider copies with Spyderco thumb holes, their neck knives aren't anything new in design, their kukri machete looks just like Ontario's, etc.

Most knife companies (even ones with long history) also have a history of borrowed and improved designs.
 
I have to say I agree with Teflon Don here, it looks like a smaller Recon Scout which looks like a smaller Trail Master, which looks like a LOT of other bowie type knives.
It does have a certain Ka-Bar fighting knife style to it but I don't think Ka-Bar has anything to worry about.
I have had mixed results from CS knives, but their warranty and customer service , at least in my experience was solid.
Most of my favorite knives were Camillus or a company that was owned by them or a company that had them make their knives..lol.
I am a Becker head now, and from my experiences with their knives and the culture surrounding them, I will be for life.
 
It's actually not that bad of a design. The guard bends forward vs. back on the Ka-Bar & the handle looks OK....I do not like the name embossed on each side though.
 
ron_m80 said:
Actually as I understand it, no. The Randall #1, was a customer submitted drawing and request for a knife. It was called at that point the Zacharias knife. He declined to make it at first, and later changing his mind made it and sent it to the service member who submitted the request. It was after all of that it was added to the Randall lineup as the Model #1.
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Thanks for clarifying, Ron. My recall on the details is a bit foggy. I seem to remember reading that the USMC fighting knife was the starting point for the #1.
 
If this knife didn't have the "hammer pommel", I don't think it would look much like the KaBar at all.
 
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