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Thanks for the mention bud. I sell the majority of my restored axes to people like us... Collectors and bushcrafters, and generally people in the gransfors crowd.. In my year on a trail crew, we used a mix of vintage forest service pulaskis and axes, along with contemporary council tool's.
This thread needs some pictures!
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
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Not2Sharp: Plumbers probably wouldn't want to spend too much money on an axe though would they? I could be wrong...
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Collectors and enthusiast, like the members on this site, are a tiny subset of the market. Factories around the globe are supported by what is selling through the major hardware outlets and that is where the vast majority of the revenues are. Probably 99% of annual knife and axe sales are made through Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon, Ace and countless other big box stores, and the buyers are ordinary home owners and craftsmen who need a basic tool to resolve a basic problem. If by industry you mean factory, that is what you will need to look at. The collectible high-end axe is a small specialized market. It is like looking at Indy cars and trying to extrapolate the broader car market.

n2s
 
Operator1975: Thanks for the input! As a collector and user, do you think that it would be able to replicate the quality of the old American axes that DarthTaco123 has referenced? Do you think any of the companies today can rival that quality? Also, do you think this "fad" is still on the upswing?

Olybear57: That is an awesome axe...do you have your own company or is it something you do on the side?

Thanks guys
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Operator1975: Thanks for the input! As a collector and user, do you think that it would be able to replicate the quality of the old American axes that DarthTaco123 has referenced? Do you think any of the companies today can rival that quality? Also, do you think this "fad" is still on the upswing?

Olybear57: That is an awesome axe...do you have your own company or is it something you do on the side?

Thanks guys
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The companies of today could replicate the quality, but the question is will they? Where is the profit from doing that? Council, GB, Wetterlings, etc would have to justify the money put into the die creation process, metal, labor force, etc. GB makes a pretty nice axe, and the Council Velvicut line is the USA answer to them. For what they will be used for in this day and age, that is probably sufficient. as for the fad, it is hard to say. There are more collectors out there than there were 5 years ago, more guys with "axe companies" of their own, but perhaps less actual buyers. 330 million people in the US, 20k members on here, 20k on bushcraftusa(many of which are duplicates of the two), so there isn't a huge market of axe buyers to start with. I think it has leveled off, but I see more of these axe company guys every day, so its hard to really say. I can't really see a market in this day and age to support more than Council and GB for any kinds of major axe sales. There is and always will be a market out there for the high end axes to go to people with money that just want one, and Best Made has literally made a killing in this area selling painted Council axes.

Overall I am happy the axe is back in popularity. It will never go away, it has its place in our basic instincts for survival. It will always be with us, but to what level remains to be seen. As long as it is around thats all I care about.
 
I don't chop during the winter...it's a continuos chore through the summer. In the winter the only time I can think of using an axe is when snow machine trails need clearing or if I pull one out of the truck to clear a falen tree. If I haven't split, stacked, and dried enough wood to to last me through the winter I have failed. It takes a while to get good and dry so I split enough to maintain about 6 cords drying. I'm not spliting wood outside when it's -40 or colder, and my wife won't let me do it in the house :grumpy:.
 
Basically what I'm seeing a lot of is that if people are interested in having a good quality axe, they're going to find a place that has old American axes, buy it cheap, and put in the work to refurbish their own axe. Is there any product gaps that this wouldn't cover where a new company may be able to fill a void?

Also, for a beginner what is it exactly that makes the old axe heads so superior?

Thanks guys.
 
The old axe heads were forged from a steel of much higher carbon content, typically in the form of a higher carbon bit forge welded either into or over a lower carbon body. More care was put into the design and manufacture, and indeed many were still technically hand forged. Between the materials and forging process they for sure out-qualify most axes on the market today in terms of quality with some brands like Gransfors and Council coming close.

Here's a video of how they used to do it.
[video=youtube;Qr4VTCwEfko]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr4VTCwEfko[/video]
 
not2sharp said:
Don't forget craftsmen, especially plumbers, who frequently have to clear tree roots in order to repair damaged water and sewer lines.

n2s
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Milwaukee Sawzall is all I (and my colleagues) ever used for roots in around foundations and pipes. They even make pruning blades for these.
 
Everyone with a garden should own a pulaski. They are the most versatile tool I have in my shop, and one of my favorites.. The thing is, most average people have no clue what a Pulaski is.
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Halfaxe: Awesome, yeah we figured that guys out in the field would need them. What brand/type of axe/hatchet did you use while you were in the business?


Any other info you guys could share would be extremely helpful...thanks again!
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I used vintage hatchets. A True Temper "Tomahawk", and a Collins Legitimus. Also a Walters. I had a True Temper boys axe in the work truck. I still have a boys axe in the truck, now a Kelly perfect but I have many now. I've been accumulating axes for over 25 years, off and on.

Also as a wood burner in my home I used a 3 1/2 pound axe sometimes for splitting before I got my gas wood splitter. A number of people here use axes in their home wood burning supply. Gas wood splitters are expensive and it was many years before I could afford one. I wouldn't call this type of axe use recreational.
 
olybears57 said:
Everyone with a garden should own a pulaski. They are the most versatile tool I have in my shop, and one of my favorites.. The thing is, most average people have no clue what a Pulaski is.
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Gotta whole-heartedly agree on this. Up until 10-12 years ago Pulaskis were not available at any stores in around me. Pretty sure it was Lee Valley (in marketing Barco versions of these) that introduced them to the consumer and hobbyist crowd. I notice now that Princess Auto sells a $15 Chinese copy that even has a wood handle, and for $5 more you get one with a plastic haft. But a Pulaski is a practical tool and I can't see the hipster or outdoor fashion crowd lusting over one of these.
 
not2sharp said:
Probably 99% of annual knife and axe sales are made through Home Depot, Lowes, Amazon, Ace and countless other big box stores, and the buyers are ordinary home owners and craftsmen who need a basic tool to resolve a basic problem.
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This pretty much sums it up. There is no quality axe market today, not really. It's so huge Council fills it almost single handed. Everyone else is offering cheap tools that the balance (the bulk probably) of the consumer base is looking for. They're probably made in China, and they are a tiny line in a massive catalog, meaning that there are few axe-only companies out there. Truper, for example, has a full tool catalog. The only thing left is the niche/outdoor market and that's well covered - GB, Wetterlings, Condor, Estwing, custom shops, buckets of tomahawk makers, Cold Steel, Marbles, then you've got the wall hangers, Best Made or Base Camp X (which are CT axes with paint).

And I think the purpose of the product line is important to the market. Council makes a quality tool, they know who is buying them and discerning customers know who to go to, it's not as if there are a lot of choices. Council seeks to fill the market for a real tool. Base Camp X or whoever, markets fancy axes to people who are into the life style aspect, which creates an image for BCX. Their bread and butter is likely in a different product line. Axes bring customers to the table. Then you take Truper or whoever, they make cheap, axe-shaped objects. Customer walks into the store, needs a large implement that resembles an axe, sees the cheap Truper next to the more expensive Council, says to himself, "what's the difference?" and walks out with the Truper. And, it does what it's needed to do. And even if it doesn't, the customer doesn't know any better.
 
cityofthesouth said:
This pretty much sums it up. There is no quality axe market today, not really. It's so huge Council fills it almost single handed. Everyone else is offering cheap tools that the balance (the bulk probably) of the consumer base is looking for. They're probably made in China, and they are a tiny line in a massive catalog, meaning that there are few axe-only companies out there. Truper, for example, has a full tool catalog. The only thing left is the niche/outdoor market and that's well covered - GB, Wetterlings, Condor, Estwing, custom shops, buckets of tomahawk makers, Cold Steel, Marbles, then you've got the wall hangers, Best Made or Base Camp X (which are CT axes with paint).

And I think the purpose of the product line is important to the market. Council makes a quality tool, they know who is buying them and discerning customers know who to go to, it's not as if there are a lot of choices. Council seeks to fill the market for a real tool. Base Camp X or whoever, markets fancy axes to people who are into the life style aspect, which creates an image for BCX. Their bread and butter is likely in a different product line. Axes bring customers to the table. Then you take Truper or whoever, they make cheap, axe-shaped objects. Customer walks into the store, needs a large implement that resembles an axe, sees the cheap Truper next to the more expensive Council, says to himself, "what's the difference?" and walks out with the Truper. And, it does what it's needed to do. And even if it doesn't, the customer doesn't know any better.
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Nicely said. These have become niche tools for purists, fashion statements by pretend-survivalists and throwaway goods by ordinary consumers.
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Basically what I'm seeing a lot of is that if people are interested in having a good quality axe, they're going to find a place that has old American axes, buy it cheap, and put in the work to refurbish their own axe. Is there any product gaps that this wouldn't cover where a new company may be able to fill a void?
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I read this a few times and thought about it for a minute. I think not, but there is one thing on my mind. I seriously doubt there is a realistic demand, but I would be interested in buying axes from Council or S&N or whoever, without a handle if there was a significant cost savings.
 
cityofthesouth said:
I read this a few times and thought about it for a minute. I think not, but there is one thing on my mind. I seriously doubt there is a realistic demand, but I would be interested in buying axes from Council or S&N or whoever, without a handle if there was a significant cost savings.
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This is a good point. They wouldn't even have to open an actual store. It could be a web based operation as shipping is much less without a handle. I would appreciate it as well, but I don't know how average people would feel about having to do work to use their new tool. I guess if it was cheap enough...not sure
 
If House can build a business selling handles I would suspect that there is profit selling heads. It's just whether the opportunity cost is worth it. If you can produce heads quicker than it takes to shod them with handles then I would think the smart money would be in shipping heads because of the volume factor. Even if the margin wasn't as high if hanging heads was a bottle neck then you could probably make it worth your while especially since you could probably beef up your margins selling the head at a discount that wasn't as much as the cost of producing a completed axe.
 
Liberatus1 said:
Even if the margin wasn't as high if hanging heads was a bottle neck then you could probably make it worth your while especially since you could probably beef up your margins selling the head at a discount that wasn't as much as the cost of producing a completed axe.
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The lower cost of shipping just the head could probably also help pad the profit margin. Funny you guys mention this, since just the other day I was browsing through a farm supply store, and stopped to look at their section of handles & hafts. Most were junk, but there was one boy's axe handle with decent shape and perfect grain, and I couldn't resist picking it up since I don't come across nice examples very often. But I have no head to mount on it, so I started browsing ebay for a head. :)

As to the broader question of the axe market, I agree with most of what's already been said. Even though I like axes, I really don't have much use for one, since I'd rather have a chain saw for serious tasks. Especially if a high quality new axe costs as much as a chainsaw.

Some have mentioned hipsters, bushcrafters, and survivalists, hobbyists, etc. Even if each of these markets is small, if you could sell the same or similar product to them all, it might add up to more than we realize. Walmart has a whole section of crap inspired by some survival reality show, so somebody must be buying the stuff in worthwhile amounts. Even if those customers aren't really going out to live off the land with it, from a marketing standpoint, who cares, as long as they're buying it? Lots of folks get tired of the modern American rat race, and want to feel a sentimental connection to simpler times of the past, so I wouldn't blame them for buying something just to fondle and daydream. I tend to think hatchets and small axes would be more popular, because more folks can envision themselves actually carrying it out to the wilderness on a belt or in their backpack, even if they end up just using it to cut sticks in the back yard for a small marshmallow roasting camp fire.
 
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