College Research

AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Basically what I'm seeing a lot of is that if people are interested in having a good quality axe, they're going to find a place that has old American axes, buy it cheap, and put in the work to refurbish their own axe. Is there any product gaps that this wouldn't cover where a new company may be able to fill a void?
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cityofthesouth said:
I read this a few times and thought about it for a minute. I think not, but there is one thing on my mind. I seriously doubt there is a realistic demand, but I would be interested in buying axes from Council or S&N or whoever, without a handle if there was a significant cost savings.
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I think if there were another niche market to fill then Council would be filling it.

But there is one possibility. No one currently offers an axe that compares with a good vintage axe. The closest thing is a Council Velvicut. But those are a little too thin and a little too soft. If some one sold an axe with a good high centerline like vintage axes had and made from high carbon steel (at least .70% carbon) and with a good heat treat (RC hardness 54-58) then there are men who would buy one.

Word would get out through places like this forum and on facebook. And if you also got them into the forestry and logging industry supply catalogs then you might have a large enough market to be successful. The price point would have to be no higher than Council Velvicut axes. Popular axe patterns now are Jerseys, Connecticuts, cruisers and boys axes. I think you could also sell a rafting axe with a hardened poll. And saddle axes tend to sell well right now.

Lastly, American style double bit axes are currently sought after by European axe collectors. I'm not sure that a new double bit would have appeal over there but vintage American double bits are gold in that market.
 
Square_peg said:
I think if there were another niche market to fill then Council would be filling it.

But there is one possibility. No one currently offers an axe that compares with a good vintage axe. The closest thing is a Council Velvicut. But those are a little too thin and a little too soft. If some one sold an axe with a good high centerline like vintage axes had and made from high carbon steel (at least .70% carbon) and with a good heat treat (RC hardness 54-58) then there are men who would buy one.
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Do you think 5160 is the right choice if it were hardened to within the range you'd like to see? Does it meet the .7% carbon content? Do Council axes have totally flat cheeks or just a really low center line? I haven't seen one in person. I wasn't entirely aware of these potential issues, and in that case I think I would tend to agree with you on the concept.
 
Square_peg said:
I think if there were another niche market to fill then Council would be filling it.

But there is one possibility. No one currently offers an axe that compares with a good vintage axe. The closest thing is a Council Velvicut. But those are a little too thin and a little too soft. If some one sold an axe with a good high centerline like vintage axes had and made from high carbon steel (at least .70% carbon) and with a good heat treat (RC hardness 54-58) then there are men who would buy one.

Word would get out through places like this forum and on facebook. And if you also got them into the forestry and logging industry supply catalogs then you might have a large enough market to be successful. The price point would have to be no higher than Council Velvicut axes. Popular axe patterns now are Jerseys, Connecticuts, cruisers and boys axes. I think you could also sell a rafting axe with a hardened poll. And saddle axes tend to sell well right now.

Lastly, American style double bit axes are currently sought after by European axe collectors. I'm not sure that a new double bit would have appeal over there but vintage American double bits are gold in that market.
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It seems nobody wants to do it right. How hard can it be? Heat treat done correctly with a high centerline. Heck I have seen axes with bits shaped like fangs. I guess its a good thing nobody is going to try and really do it right, that way they can't fail. So I will just keep using vintage axes. Heck there is plenty of them out there for a good price, better than any mass produced axe made today.
 
cityofthesouth said:
Do you think 5160 is the right choice if it were hardened to within the range you'd like to see?

Does it meet the .7% carbon content?

Do Council axes have totally flat cheeks or just a really low center line?
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5160 could do a passable job with the right heat treat. It has 60 points of carbon (.6%).

The Velvicuts I've seen have very slightly raised centerlines. It's passable and better than anything else currently for sale. It's better than the import stuff but still not up to vintage geometry. Vaughan still makes hatchets in America with comparable steel but their full size axes are imported now.
 
Another American axe company that hasn't been mentioned is Estwing. I've found Estwing hatchets to be almost indestructible. One of my coworkers, not an axe snob like me, used one. He sharpened it on a grinder. They are well-made and probably the best small axe or hatchet for the person who wants an axe and doesn't want to spend time on care or maintenance.
 
halfaxe said:
Another American axe company that hasn't been mentioned is Estwing. I've found Estwing hatchets to be almost indestructible. One of my coworkers, not an axe snob like me, used one. He sharpened it on a grinder. They are well-made and probably the best small axe or hatchet for the person who wants an axe and doesn't want to spend time on care or maintenance.
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There are a lot of these kicking around, literally. With an exception for the leather handled models, to see or find an Estwing hatchet/axe that has been well cared for is a rarity.
 
Estwing for sure get's the job done for the price, the metal handle is near impossible to break. A few people I know use the medium sized model as a truck axe.
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Basically what I'm seeing a lot of is that if people are interested in having a good quality axe, they're going to find a place that has old American axes, buy it cheap, and put in the work to refurbish their own axe. Is there any product gaps that this wouldn't cover where a new company may be able to fill a void?
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Perhaps a bit out of your scope as it is a niche market, but I would say that the fastest growing segment of new axes would be the tactical tomahawk market. And no, I don't say that just because I make them. You see more companies and individual makers coming out with new designs every year. Target customers are military, law enforcement, first responders, outdoorsmen, and people that like tactical/military gear.

There are, of course, varying levels of quality and seriousness/goofiness in the designs, and their usage is aimed in a different direction from most of what's been discussed in this thread. Even in the target customer groups, there is a range of responses to tactical 'hawks from vociferous eye rolling to hearty approval. I know Alan2442 mentioned laughing at anyone showing up in the military with a tomahawk or big knife. I also know what my customers who are current and former military say, and it depends a lot on which outfit you're with whether they are laughed at or accepted as a useful piece of kit. Seems like with the conflicts in the Middle East, the 'hawk has come to be a lot more accepted than it would have been in the past.

So, might be an area of inquiry for you.
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Hello everyone,

My group and I at the College of Wooster are doing market research on the axe industry and were wondering if you could help us.

What type of people usually buy axes?

Are certain products typically bought together?

What are the most popular brands of axes and why do you think so?

What do you consider most when selecting an axe?

Anything would help!

Thanks
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There's a "tactical" tomahawk industry you might not be aware of. Daniel Winkler and RMJ are very popular among lEO. But theres collectors, firefighters, homesteaders, outdoorsmen etc

Are certain ax products bought together? Any quality ax is complimented with a saw whether its a bahco laplander or a 24 inch bucksaw

Popular brands? Well winkler and rmj for tactical/military theres also Estwing, Gransfors, Council, Wetterlings, Hultafors, etc
Swedish axes typically have a good reputation. Estwings are cheap and darn near indestructible. Council is made in the USA and has a good reputation.

I look for reputation and performance. I carry/use a $200 knife, so buying a $120 ax that has a excellent reputation isn't that much of a issue. That said, there are plenty of other axes with great reputations in the 50-100 range



Theres also a refurbishing/rehanging of old american axes that have gone mainstream. You can buy old american axes for relatively cheap, refurbish them, rehang them and they'll compete with anything currently produced
 
Everyone: Thanks so much for the input...it really helps...I have to head to a meeting so hopefully I'll be able to respond more later. But can anyone give an extremely rough estimate of the size of the market for either a)premium Europe axes and b) vintage American axes? Basically how many people are out there just like the people in this blog? Any rough estimates help, thanks everyone.
 
AXE_men_of_Wooster said:
Everyone: Thanks so much for the input...it really helps...I have to head to a meeting so hopefully I'll be able to respond more later. But can anyone give an extremely rough estimate of the size of the market for either a)premium Europe axes and b) vintage American axes? Basically how many people are out there just like the people in this blog? Any rough estimates help, thanks everyone.
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No idea on the numbers. Some models of Gransfors Bruks have been difficult to get in the recent past. Some vintage heads will cost hundreds of dollars but nice old user heads can be had for $30 or less. I would guess the interest in vintage axes is less than the interest in acquiring a new high quality Swedish axe in the overall US population.
 
I honestly DO see a market for heads or for "axe kits" of a matched handle and head, sent unhafted. Hafting an axe properly is something that takes time. An amount of time that most manufacturers are not able or willing to spend. As a result, countless axes are sold with good handles, good heads, but bad hangs, and so the quality of the product judged as a ready-to-use tool in its finished state is low, simply because of the failure to join the two components properly. Just give the customer a head, a handle, and some simple instructions, and let them take some enjoyment out of hanging it themselves and knowing it was done right.

From a market standpoint I've been seeing success with the Italian-made axes that I carry from Rinaldi and Falci, and they're very different from the standard offerings currently on the market. Brand recognition is low at this point in time, but I expect it to grow soon. They're very high quality tools that are novel and offer some unique qualities.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I honestly DO see a market for heads or for "axe kits" of a matched handle and head, sent unhafted. Hafting an axe properly is something that takes time. An amount of time that most manufacturers are not able or willing to spend. As a result, countless axes are sold with good handles, good heads, but bad hangs, and so the quality of the product judged as a ready-to-use tool in its finished state is low, simply because of the failure to join the two components properly. Just give the customer a head, a handle, and some simple instructions, and let them take some enjoyment out of hanging it themselves and knowing it was done right.
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You're on to something here, Benjamin. The time it takes to do a good job of hanging an axe makes it cost prohibitive. But if QC was really high on the hafts ensuring a good fit to the head then it could be done quickly with mechanical means.
 
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