Companies need to start issuing verified third-party HRC tests.

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halden.doerge said:
Can't breathe....too much literally.....everywhere! :eek:
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Insipid Moniker said:
If it's your day job you should rather easily be able to give us a solid quote on the price per unit to do verified third part hardness testing.
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A. You want to know how much to paint a house. If you want specific numbers you need specific inputs.
B. At no point have I referenced third party testing. I LITERALLY said:

FiveToes said:
At no point am I championing third party certification. I'm simply saying manufacturers could share more info with the consumer without spilling any of their secret sauce industry secrets.
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FiveToes said:
I am dissatisfied with your assertion that sharing more information with consumers is unnecessary. You're free to like whatever you want and I encourage you to do so to your hearts content.

I hope you haven't taken offense to my posts. It looks like you may have. This isn't an attack so please don't read it as such. I have no interest in tribalism and just want to look at things objectively.
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I'm really not asserting anything. I am stating that I am satisfied with the level of information provided to me by firms with whom I deal and have dealt, and I shall continue dealing with them to my hearts content... no encouragement needed. I am confident that I am "getting what I think I am getting", and if I feel that I am not I am confident that the companies I deal with will set me aright. I believe that I am looking at it objectively enough, and feel that folks will be okay if they do the same.

I have not, do not, and will not take offense to anyone's post.
 
Who would this "third party tester" be, and why should I trust them?
You know, since the whole point of this is that we're not trusting people...

Or would it be a whole new governmental agency?
Could I then only buy officially government approved knives? :eek:
 
Insipid Moniker said:
So you jumped into a thread to make entirely off topic comments?
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I feel that you're being purposely obtuse at this point. The thread started with an appeal for some sort of manufacturer sanctioned third party testing with published results. I suggested manufacturers label and publish names for their existing, internal testing, so that consumers had a way to adequately compare knives from those manufacturers, and would highlight when changes took place in process that may affect the performance of two models of the same knife. Right now this important facet is completely opaque to the buying public.

Velitrius said:
I am confident that I am "getting what I think I am getting",
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Based on what?

Velitrius said:
I believe that I am looking at it objectively enough,
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I don't know how that could be. You've described nothing but subjective measures.

Velitrius said:
and feel that folks will be okay if they do the same.
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I'm pleased that you're content. I will continue to endeavor for transparency.
 
stabman said:
Who would this "third party tester" be, and why should I trust them?
You know, since the whole point of this is that we're not trusting people...

Or would it be a whole new governmental agency?
Could I then only buy officially government approved knives? :eek:
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I will test the 3rd party testers. I am 105% reliable in these maters.
 
As an aside, is there a name for the style of argument where you don’t really offer any counterpoints or suggestions and instead just ask more and more questions, essentially asking the other person to fully construct the hypothetical model of their proposed system down to exact percentage figures?

It’s similar to, but less enlightening than, version of a kid asking “why?” after every subsequent explanation. It’s like arguing without having an actual stated position other than not yours.
 
Comeuppance said:
As an aside, is there a name for the style of argument where you don’t really offer any counterpoints or suggestions and instead just ask more and more questions, essentially asking the other person to fully construct the hypothetical model of their proposed system down to exact percentage figures?

It’s similar to, but less enlightening than, version of a kid asking “why?” after every subsequent explanation. It’s like arguing without having an actual stated position other than not yours.
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Hey, I'm with ya. The title to the thread is "Companies Need To Start Issuing Verified Third-Party HRC Tests".

I've stated that I'm satisfied with my purchases without the third party tests, and I'm asked to provide data that supports my satisfaction.

I'm okay with folks who want more info on the manufacturing process, but simply because I don't need additional info, somehow that means that I'm arguing that consumers shouldn't have it.

If folks don't want to buy from a company unless they provide any and all information necessary for them to do so, then that is fine by me. I don't require more information than is typically available on the interwebs, so somehow I'm against transparency.

I have read every post in this thread, and have given each one the consideration that it has deserved. At this point, I feel that this thread does not deserve any more of my posts.

It's been an experience, that's for sure... but I'm done here.
 
Still no list of the other consumer goods that are commonly available with verified 3rd party testing?

Why not? It would appear this a perfectly common expectation among some buyers.
 
Comeuppance said:
As an aside, is there a name for the style of argument where you don’t really offer any counterpoints or suggestions and instead just ask more and more questions, essentially asking the other person to fully construct the hypothetical model of their proposed system down to exact percentage figures?

It’s similar to, but less enlightening than, version of a kid asking “why?” after every subsequent explanation. It’s like arguing without having an actual stated position other than not yours.
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It's called the Socratic Method. It's generally used to gently point out the flaws in an argument without stating them directly.
 
Danke42 said:
Still no list of the other consumer goods that are commonly available with verified 3rd party testing?

Why not? It would appear this a perfectly common expectation among some buyers.
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Off the top of my head - automobiles, but not for peak power/torque/speed... OEMs self-test and report emissions and fuel economy to regulatory standards but EPA and CARB do confirmatory testing. And IIHS does their own safety testing that they report as well.

But for the third party there, it's either legally required or there's a significant financial interest for themselves (IIHS wants to know crash performance and safety for insurance rate-setting purposes).
 
An automobile is a pretty complex system with huge footprint that the emissions and safety standards will affect.

How about something simpler like a laptop, or a ball peen hammer?
 
Danke42 said:
An automobile is a pretty complex system with huge footprint that the emissions and safety standards will affect.

How about something simpler like a laptop, or a ball peen hammer?
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CPU/GPU benchmarking is a huge deal for computers, same for battery life for laptops... For displays there's all sorts of analysis people do on the color output and its veracity vs a natural sun spectrum or response across different parts of the spectrum. Then there's the resolution and refresh rates, and on and on. Couldn't believe the information overload when I bought my last TV.

You just have to pick your preferred third party for the testing.

I'm not aware of any third-party testing for ball-peen hammers. :)
 
Skywalker31 said:
CPU/GPU benchmarking is a huge deal for computers, same for battery life for laptops... For displays there's all sorts of analysis people do on the color output and its veracity vs a natural sun spectrum or response across different parts of the spectrum. Couldn't believe the information overload when I bought my last TV.

You just have to pick your preferred third party for the testing.

I'm not aware of any third-party testing for ball-peen hammers. :)
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I have a laptop right here and it has not 3rd party sticker attached to it. Do you have pictures of these certificates?
 
Insipid Moniker said:
It's called the Socratic Method. It's generally used to gently point out the flaws in an argument without stating them directly.
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It doesn't work to "point out the flaws" if your entire methodology is based on asking a person to explain something in minute detail well past the point of it being worthwhile - or anything short of speculative. Asking people to armchair-expert their way through QC cost analysis and protocol is pointless. If you have a point, state it and move on.
 
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