Companies need to start issuing verified third-party HRC tests.

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Quiet said:
I wonder at which point there'd be a thread demanding that we need to have some sort of verification for the verification charts of these steels.
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I was gonna start a thread on that very subject tomorrow!
 
Banter 247 said:
I would be fascinated to see you use a blind sample and report on how well it’s heat treated.
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I know you've been here a relatively short period of time so I'll give you a top tip, I've got thousands of posts describing my knife use experiences. If you are really that interested, go read them!
 
Banter 247 said:
How are the Rockwell and grains in your most recent purchase?
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The Runes say the heat treat was a success...

5nqLZWE.jpg


Dispute proof of that magnitude at your peril! :cool:
 
You can't use just hardness alone as an indicator of quality.

At the same hardness, you could have a blade more tough or less tough or more stainless or less stainless.

For example, if you look at the Crucible chart half way down the right side of this PDF, you can see that A2 knife steel at about Rc 56 could have a Charpy C-Notch toughness of 28 ft.-lbs or 41 ft-lbs or something in-between. Heat treating is complicated.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsA2v12010.pdf

To really know what you have in a blade, you'd want to know strength (hardness), toughness and wear resistance.

Why go to all this trouble just for an imperfect number that may or may not tell you want you want to know.
 
craytab said:
Does it mater if it works for your use?
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It does if you’re paying a premium for a steel/performance upgrade and aren’t getting it.

craytab said:
I know you've been here a relatively short period of time so I'll give you a top tip, I've got thousands of posts describing my knife use experiences. If you are really that interested, go read them!
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Searching your post history per the ‘top tip’ was certainly informative.
 
Twindog said:
You can't use just hardness alone as an indicator of quality.

At the same hardness, you could have a blade more tough or less tough or more stainless or less stainless.

For example, if you look at the Crucible chart half way down the right side of this PDF, you can see that A2 knife steel at about Rc 56 could have a Charpy C-Notch toughness of 28 ft.-lbs or 41 ft-lbs or something in-between. Heat treating is complicated.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsA2v12010.pdf

To really know what you have in a blade, you'd want to know strength (hardness), toughness and wear resistance.

Why go to all this trouble just for an imperfect number that may or may not tell you want you want to know.
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You’re correct that it’s not the only thing to know, but it’s also true that it is a puzzle piece that helps provide a way to sort out others. For example, edge retention testing, paired with hrc testing, can help clarify patterns of performance.

It’s a data point. No more, no less.
 
Twindog said:
You can't use just hardness alone as an indicator of quality.

At the same hardness, you could have a blade more tough or less tough or more stainless or less stainless.

For example, if you look at the Crucible chart half way down the right side of this PDF, you can see that A2 knife steel at about Rc 56 could have a Charpy C-Notch toughness of 28 ft.-lbs or 41 ft-lbs or something in-between. Heat treating is complicated.

http://www.crucible.com/PDFs/DataSheets2010/dsA2v12010.pdf

To really know what you have in a blade, you'd want to know strength (hardness), toughness and wear resistance.

Why go to all this trouble just for an imperfect number that may or may not tell you want you want to know.
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Exactly.
 
Banter 247 said:
How are the Rockwell and grains in your most recent purchase?
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I think going from 63 assumed to a 56 actual is pretty noticeable.

If the blade was just very easy to clean up relative to all my steel I would be suspicious if I thought it was well above 60

Which is why it's sorta crazy to me none of these manufacturer's noticed....Just through basic maintenance you should notice something like that over time. It may take a while if you have a massive knife rotation....But sooner or later you're gonna notice.

I would imagine it would be obvious just grinding the thing down
 
craytab said:
You read through all my actual knife use here that quickly? Fast reader.
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The first three pages spoke volumes.

craytab said:
Exactly.
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Microscopy doesn’t tell the whole story. Composition doesn’t tell the whole story. Geometry doesn’t tell the whole story. Edge finish doesn’t tell the whole story.

Why look at any of these?

Because they are pieces of the puzzle.

BigWillie said:
I think going from 63 assumed to a 56 actual is pretty noticeable.

If the blade was just very easy to clean up relative to all my steel I would be suspicious if I thought it was well above 60

Which is why it's sorta crazy to me none of these manufacturer's noticed....Just through basic maintenance you should notice something like that over time. It may take a while if you have a massive knife rotation....But sooner or later you're gonna notice.

I would imagine it would be obvious just grinding the thing down
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56 to 63, given a frame of reference, should definitely be glaring. I agree.

As for them not noticing... I try to stay out of speculating about how or why these low samples got by. I just know that they did. To your point, I would certainly hope that it would be noticed in grinding.
 
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