Companies need to start issuing verified third-party HRC tests.

[Pàdruig]

Lol really. Honestly if your going to take Mike's recent post as 100% validity when he wasn't even there between two men, why is he even making a post on it. He was not there.

If he misspoke, then the onus is on you, who is making the claim, to prove it. So... Prove it.

 

[Mo2]

If he misspoke, then the onus is on you, who is making the claim, to prove it. So... Prove it.

Prove that he was not there? I think that's obvious.

 

[Pàdruig]

Prove that he was not there? I think that's obvious.

Don't be obtuse, you know what I'm requesting.

 

[miso2]

Apology issued by LTK to Lionsteel and CK.

 

[halden.doerge]

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Lololol

You got to be kidding.
Everything else lines up and you think he's out to get lionsteel. Lol. I mean he tried multiple times cause it was hard to believe. Then he took it to Peter's to test it and you still think it's foul play. Seriously what's wrong with you. Even Peter's wants to have it tested again by another 3rd party because they are both doing it right.

Just put you on ignore. I can't be bothered to read some of the things you post.

Hope you know a machine did the results and not the person. Ltk was the only one that got all pissed and didn't wait for more testing.

Let's just check things off the list, shall we? The vast majority of the knives tested came in within the manufacturers claimed range or very close to it.

The outliers essentially all came from a single brand.

When the time came to confirm the results of the testing, methodology was discussed and things looked good.

All other samples came back as a match...except the Lionsteel, which had a huge discrepancy.

Normally, one would look at that and think, "Oh, human error on the part of the tester, no big deal."

But that supposed error happened on only on Lionsteel knives, but also on all three Lionsteel knives? That's pushing the bounds of credulity awfully far.

To give the guy the benefit of the doubt maybe there's something about those designs from Lionsteel that makes them particularly difficult to test. But people come in here and crap on manufacturers all the time. And lying would, frankly, be a much simpler explanation for the massive testing discrepancies that fit such an odd pattern.

 

[Mo2]

Don't be obtuse, you know what I'm requesting.

First post was Mike insinuating that they did an hrc test on the blade edge. Of which wasn't true.

The 2nd to last paragraph in particular in the latest post are a bit disingenious. Saying he would have to hunt down posts. And then next calling out one comment about paint chips, which is in reference to running the test. It's not hard, many knife makers get an aim's Hardness tester and read the directions. You don't need to be an expert to run an hrc test.
Pretty sure Kurt wasn't saying everything was super soft based on two knives.

If Mike was at Peter's, he would have known that they compared methods of running the test and calibration with Peter's and nothing is different in the methods. Not to mention they tested other knives that got the same results with on both machines. But Mike wouldn't know that, cause he wasn't there.

Ltk should have contacted the manufacturer like they did with the other knives that were low. And if you've seen the video he's apologized.

Yet Mike's making it seem like this anomaly makes all these tests invalid, of which does not. Then he goes and says how his work place must have all the wrong numbers...

Though this machines been verified by multiple others testers in the industry and other testers got the same results ie the Benchmade 3v got same results on 3 different machines. Sounds a bit messed up here thus far. Trying to smear someone who just ran a test and has been fair testing. Ltk was the one that jumped the gun here.

Besides all of this, it's just two knives. Ignorant people blew it out of proportion based off of what someone like Ltk said in his video. Of which is apparently corrected and he's apologized.

I think Mike owes Kurt an apology tbo for those comments. But I'm not gonna ask him to do that.

Why was there an anomaly? Who knows. Why did people go nuts on this? Who knows. You can't help it. Social media.

In any case the lionsteel controversy is now closed. I'm done with you kids too on this. Ltk has said he's going to 3rd party verify and wait to talk to manufacturers.

I'm still waiting for hrc values to go up and be more consistent on m390.

 

[Pàdruig]

First post was Mike insinuating that they did an hrc test on the blade edge. Of which wasn't true.

The 2nd to last paragraph in particular in the latest post are a bit disingenious. Saying he would have to hunt down posts. And then next calling out one comment about paint chips, which is in reference to running the test. It's not hard, many knife makers get an aim's Hardness tester and read the directions. You don't need to be an expert to run an hrc test.
Pretty sure Kurt wasn't saying everything was super soft based on two knives.

If Mike was at Peter's, he would have known that they compared methods of running the test and calibration with Peter's and nothing is different in the methods. Not to mention they tested other knives that got the same results with on both machines. But Mike wouldn't know that, cause he wasn't there.

Ltk should have contacted the manufacturer like they did with the other knives that were low. And if you've seen the video he's apologized.

Yet Mike's making it seem like this anomaly makes all these tests invalid, of which does not. Then he goes and says how his work place must have all the wrong numbers...

Though this machines been verified by multiple others testers in the industry and other testers got the same results ie the Benchmade 3v got same results on 3 different machines. Sounds a bit messed up here thus far. Trying to smear someone who just ran a test and has been fair testing. Ltk was the one that jumped the gun here.

Besides all of this, it's just two knives. Ignorant people blew it out of proportion based off of what someone like Ltk said in his video. Of which is apparently corrected and he's apologized.

I think Mike owes Kurt an apology tbo for those comments. But I'm not gonna ask him to do that.

Why was there an anomaly? Who knows. Why did people go nuts on this? Who knows. You can't help it. Social media.

In any case the lionsteel controversy is now closed. I'm done with you kids too on this. Ltk has said he's going to 3rd party verify and wait to talk to manufacturers.

I'm still waiting for hrc values to go up and be more consistent on m390.

(Sigh....)

Short of following a link to its destination now and then, I do not follow YouTube knife dudes, Instagram knife dudes, or any of the like. I commend Mike for having the patience he does to maintain a presence on all of those platforms. What I am getting at is that your interpretation, sans screenshots and/or links, leaves your position sorely lacking.

I know Mike from the presence he maintains here on these forums. Once you get past his dry demeanor, he is easy to get along with and understand. As of yet, I have seen nothing that has warranted the attacks that he has suffered or the business that he has lost as a result of this ridiculous mess. That link you did post was an excellent example of everything wrong with your approach to this issue. A screenshot, without context, accompanied by a bunch of trollish idiots providing less than helpful commentary (trying to put it as nicely as I can, family friendly and all), does not make any semblance of a case. Mike never made any claim that he was at Peter's, a point you seem to be hung up on, for whatever reason.... You think he didn't have conversations with the parties involved? Or do you assume that he just made it all up?

I am happy that LTK posted an apology but the damage has been done. Mike, being the one man operation that he is, has to pick up the pieces.

 

[Mo2]

(Sigh....)

Short of following a link to its destination now and then, I do not follow YouTube knife dudes, Instagram knife dudes, or any of the like. I commend Mike for having the patience he does to maintain a presence on all of those platforms. What I am getting at is that your interpretation, sans screenshots and/or links, leaves your position sorely lacking.

I know Mike from the presence he maintains here on these forums. Once you get past his dry demeanor, he is easy to get along with and understand. As of yet, I have seen nothing that has warranted the attacks that he has suffered or the business that he has lost as a result of this ridiculous mess. That link you did post was an excellent example of everything wrong with your approach to this issue. A screenshot, without context, accompanied by a bunch of trollish idiots providing less than helpful commentary (trying to put it as nicely as I can, family friendly and all), does not make any semblance of a case. Mike never made any claim that he was at Peter's, a point you seem to be hung up on, for whatever reason.... You think he didn't have conversations with the parties involved? Or do you assume that he just made it all up?

I am happy that LTK posted an apology but the damage has been done. Mike, being the one man operation that he is, has to pick up the pieces.

whos to say that he even had loads of orders and that the people who had those orders even saw any of this. if he's making up the other things, im not sure i believe him. and why would those few people even take this as a fact that all there knives are so low in hrc. thats STUPID. there is zero proof of that.

it sucks that ltk made a fuss about an anomaly. it does cause people ran with it like crazy. he's learned his lesson.

im still in the park that these higher end steel's need to be performing better in real life not on a machine. or switch to a steel thats easier to consistently heat treat.

 

[BigKurtHaze]

whos to say that he even had loads of orders and that the people who had those orders even saw any of this.

I have an M390 Lionsteel on preorder with Mike. I’ve been following this cluster rather closely. Put that data point on your chart.

 

[Mo2]

I have an M390 Lionsteel on preorder with Mike. I’ve been following this cluster rather closely. Put that data point on your chart.

So you decided it would be good to cancel it based off of this? I didn't think so. I haven't seen one thing that would make someone cancel an order based on any of this crap. Even if it was 57hrc that's not a reason. I don't see anyone buying a slip joint let alone one this stylish to cut gobs of cardboard. Heck I don't see many people wanting to cut with there expensive knives in general. Not that some don't. But seems the majority don't. None of those people should be concerned.

I mean I don't want to pay m390 prices used or new for something that isn't 60-62 performance. But I'm using these things for cutting. My lionsteel tm1 in niolox is heavily used for cutting cardboard and edc. It's not the greatest at keeping an edge in extended cutting jobs, but I enjoy using it. But prefer to not sharpen so often. Hence why I have a plethora of great steels on different knives to use.

 

[BigKurtHaze]

Even if it was 57hrc that's not a reason.

Am I just hallucinating that the allegation was 51?

I don't see anyone buying a slip joint let alone one this stylish to cut gobs of cardboard.

I always have a real knife on me, never just a slipjoint. If I’m cutting “gobs” of cardboard, I’m probably at work and have my 4V Manix, which I understand is around 65 HRC. Ya know, give or take ten points.

 

[Mo2]

Am I just hallucinating that the allegation was 51?


I always have a real knife on me, never just a slipjoint. If I’m cutting “gobs” of cardboard, I’m probably at work and have my 4V Manix, which I understand is around 65 HRC. Ya know, give or take ten points.

I don't remember the number there was so many listed from all the marks it made trying to find a good spot. I was just throwing a random number out that was just below there advertised #.

That 4v is nice, wish I had a spyderco in 4v. My family and I do most of our shopping online. Get alot of boxes.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

(Sigh....)

Short of following a link to its destination now and then, I do not follow YouTube knife dudes, Instagram knife dudes, or any of the like. I commend Mike for having the patience he does to maintain a presence on all of those platforms. What I am getting at is that your interpretation, sans screenshots and/or links, leaves your position sorely lacking.

I know Mike from the presence he maintains here on these forums. Once you get past his dry demeanor, he is easy to get along with and understand. As of yet, I have seen nothing that has warranted the attacks that he has suffered or the business that he has lost as a result of this ridiculous mess. That link you did post was an excellent example of everything wrong with your approach to this issue. A screenshot, without context, accompanied by a bunch of trollish idiots providing less than helpful commentary (trying to put it as nicely as I can, family friendly and all), does not make any semblance of a case. Mike never made any claim that he was at Peter's, a point you seem to be hung up on, for whatever reason.... You think he didn't have conversations with the parties involved? Or do you assume that he just made it all up?

I am happy that LTK posted an apology but the damage has been done. Mike, being the one man operation that he is, has to pick up the pieces.

I only have a peripheral knowledge of this whole debacle (I never bought the m390 hype to begin with), but it saddens me to see Mike stuck in the middle.

I can't say I have some fancy, professional HRC testing equipment, but I have sharpened several of the CK Lionsteel slippies. They seemed fine to me. Certainly not the sort of wear resistance you get from Spyderco's super hard offerings, but much more resistant than a GEC in 1095. I wouldn't worry about it at all on those particular models.

Hell, they're not even all that expensive. The fact that it's m390 is just gravy. I'd happily buy the same knives in n690 or sleipner at the same price. They're really exceptional little pieces.

Mike will rebound, I'm sure. There's enough of us here with enough stories of his stellar customer service to overturn whatever negative PR comes from some HRC tests on knives that he didn't make. I just hope the frustration doesn't forever taint his view of the hobby he's built his business around.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

Am I just hallucinating that the allegation was 51?


I always have a real knife on me, never just a slipjoint. If I’m cutting “gobs” of cardboard, I’m probably at work and have my 4V Manix, which I understand is around 65 HRC. Ya know, give or take ten points.

The one's I've sharpened definitely weren't 51. They took way too long to reprofile to be that soft.

That may very well have been the accusation, but if so it's not correct. Not on the whole series anyway.

 

[BigKurtHaze]

Hell, they're not even all that expensive. The fact that it's m390 is just gravy. I'd happily buy the same knives in n690 or sleipner at the same price. They're really exceptional little pieces.

Agreed on all points. Call me crazy, I would prefer N690 to M390 on these.

That may very well have been the accusation, but if so it's not correct. Not on the whole series anyway.

There was a Dom that was reported fractionally under that number, very same piece was subsequently tested by Peter’s at 59.5 HRC. I sat through the LTK apology video during dinner.

 

[craytab]

I don't remember the number there was so many listed from all the marks it made trying to find a good spot. I was just throwing a random number out that was just below there advertised #.

Making stuff up isn't helpful.

 

[Mo2]

Making stuff up isn't helpful.

Why would you reply like that. Didn't you even read the context of the post? Of course not. Cause you just want to stir up trouble. Can you even read? I didn't claim the hrc of any particular knife. I said, and I quote.

So you decided it would be good to cancel it based off of this? I didn't think so. I haven't seen one thing that would make someone cancel an order based on any of this crap. Even if it was 57hrc that's not a reason.

Please don't butt into something and then make it seem like someones saying false info.

The other info is that the knife had alot of dimples on it. It had several different readings. Goto the source material to find out. I'm not spreading any false info here.

 

[craytab]

Why would you reply like that. Didn't you even read the context of the post? Of course not. Cause you just want to stir up trouble. Can you even read? I didn't claim the hrc of any particular knife. I said, and I quote.


Please don't butt into something and then make it seem like someones saying false info.

The other info is that the knife had alot of dimples on it. It had several different readings. Goto the source material to find out. I'm not spreading any false info here.

I can read just fine. You made up a number in a very serious discussion. Your quote admits as such.

 

[Mo2]

I can read just fine. You made up a number in a very serious discussion. Your quote admits as such.

If you are going to be a child your now on ignore.

In no way did I claim any knife here was 57. It was a hypothetical thing. If you can't understand that and are just making trouble... That's on you.