Comparable steel to K390? How do you like the Minimalist lanyard? Plus a custom knife request

[TigFur]

Hi everyone,
ill try to keep it short and put all the details at the end so you may decide not to read them.

1) What steels are comparable or better than K390? (edge holding > grain structure/sharpness > toughness > rust resistance)

2) What do you think about the lanyard solution on Folts Minimalist (it has a cut groove at the end instead of a hole. In my design is a hole because i think its easier to make and the scales can be weak with a groove)

3) Would anyone be able to make a me a custom knife (see below) for a reasonable price?


My design is very much based on the CRKT Minimalist that ive been EDCing on off since 2012.

The idea is to drastically improve the steel (currently leaning to K390) and customize several other aspects.
ideally made in europe to keep shipping costs at a minimum.

I took some time to put my ideas to a virtual 3D paper:



Feel free to give me your opinion.

EDIT: I wrote much more about my decision, each change and some aspects of making it (steel, price...) but it got too long so if youre interested in that you can read it here: http://freetexthost.com/i6ghyyc05z

Thanks everyone!

 

[marrenmiller]

K390 is sort of an A11 class steel, so I would suggest looking at CPM 10V or Bohler K294.

As for the custom knife, I'm sure there are makers here who would love to take on the commission.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Check out Knife Steel FAQ (http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml) for information on K390 and equivalents.

 

[Baron Mind]

K390 is sort of an A11 class steel, so I would suggest looking at CPM 10V or Bohler K294.

As for the custom knife, I'm sure there are makers here who would love to take on the commission.

That's the answer, but I'll go ahead and muddy the waters a bit

KKnives Switzerland and BBB on YouTube have spoke of the new Vancron Superclean as a much more corrosion resistant k390.

And personally I find Spyderco's REX45 somewhat similar to their K390. REX45 has lower carbide volume and probably a lower percentage of vanadium carbide, but it's HRC and chromium content is similar. For a fixed blade it wouldn't be a bad alternative as the slight trade off in wear resistance for toughness could be desirable, while maintaining the edge strength and sharpening characteristics of k390.

 

[mycough]

10V is really close. I love them both...

Russ

 

[Danke42]

 

[DocJD]

I don't have a Minimalist , but here is my experience with the "SPEW" : https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...t-be-ok-or-will-i-spew.1675627/#post-19176311

Also in a later post on same thread I described bending the tip of the knife with some hard use . Could definitely benefit from better steel and HT . And a better sheath !

Good luck with your custom .

 

[ScooterG]

Hi everyone,
ill try to keep it short and put all the details at the end so you may decide not to read them.

1) What steels are comparable or better than K390? (edge holding > grain structure/sharpness > toughness > rust resistance)

2) What do you think about the lanyard solution on Folts Minimalist (it has a cut groove at the end instead of a hole. In my design is a hole because i think its easier to make and the scales can be weak with a groove)

3) Would anyone be able to make a me a custom knife (see below) for a reasonable price?


My design is very much based on the CRKT Minimalist that ive been EDCing on off since 2012.

The idea is to drastically improve the steel (currently leaning to K390) and customize several other aspects.
ideally made in europe to keep shipping costs at a minimum.

I took some time to put my ideas to a virtual 3D paper:



Feel free to give me your opinion.

EDIT: I wrote much more about my decision, each change and some aspects of making it (steel, price...) but it got too long so if youre interested in that you can read it here: http://freetexthost.com/i6ghyyc05z

Thanks everyone!

Try @Robert Erickson for a nice custom K390.

 

[TigFur]

KKnives Switzerland and BBB on YouTube have spoke of the new Vancron Superclean as a much more corrosion resistant k390.

And personally I find Spyderco's REX45 somewhat similar to their K390.

Looked it up, sounds very interesting. Luckily the Vancron is too expensive for me to even consider and i suppose those nitro steels arent gonna get much cheaper anytime soon.

Rex 45 and rex 121 both seems like interesting choices.

10V is really close. I love them both...

I havent been able to find much info on K294 or 10V. Some say its less tough than K390 but slightly more abrassion resistant. I am also curious about corrosion resistance.

Also in a later post on same thread I described bending the tip of the knife with some hard use . Could definitely benefit from better steel and HT . And a better sheath !

If i remember correctly the Minimalist was supposed to be hardened to 55 HRC... and it still broke its tip. I think its better when it bends, thats much easier to fix.
The sheath on the minimalist also isnt kydex but some other thermoplastic similar (according to specifications i remember) The retention on mine was allright but considering i reground the knife because of a broken tip and thinning it, its much looser now and i had it fall out on me twice. No big deal though.

Try @Robert Erickson for a nice custom K390.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Larrin]

Don't forget Vanadis 8.

 

[Twindog]

1) What steels are comparable or better than K390? (edge holding > grain structure/sharpness > toughness > rust resistance)

2) What do you think about the lanyard solution on Folts Minimalist (it has a cut groove at the end instead of a hole. In my design is a hole because i think its easier to make and the scales can be weak with a groove)

3) Would anyone be able to make a me a custom knife (see below) for a reasonable price?

Your first question has a problem because almost all other steels will exceed K390 in some respects and not others. I'd argue that you need a balanced steel for strength and toughness. Those fine tips are what makes the Spew and Minimalist family work so well. You don't want a tip that will break, and you don't want a tip that will bend.

These knives are not meant to be heavy duty, but detail knives. How you use the knives is more important than the steel.

On the second question, you can look at the Folts custom and see what he does with the lanyard hole. It works fine for me.

Your third question bothers me because you're asking a knifemaker to copy Folts' design. Nobody should do that.

Folts uses CPM 154 a lot, which is a really good steel. He also uses damascus, which I know nothing about. Why not just get one of his customs. They are not all that expensive and they are much better than CRKT.

 

[BitingSarcasm]

I have a couple of Minimalists, I carry and use them from time to time. Folts customs come up decently often on the exchange for about what you would pay a maker to copy his IP. Changing the tail fob to a lanyard is actually a sticking point in my eyes. The Minimalist fob sticks straight out the back and is made of a stiff wrap of microcord, that's what makes it feel like an extension of the handle. Changing it to running through a lanyard tube means the fob will be much more floppy and tend to ride up on the spine. It may not be a big deal, but it would annoy me.

 

[ShannonSteelLabs]

That's the answer, but I'll go ahead and muddy the waters a bit

KKnives Switzerland and BBB on YouTube have spoke of the new Vancron Superclean as a much more corrosion resistant k390.

And personally I find Spyderco's REX45 somewhat similar to their K390. REX45 has lower carbide volume and probably a lower percentage of vanadium carbide, but it's HRC and chromium content is similar. For a fixed blade it wouldn't be a bad alternative as the slight trade off in wear resistance for toughness could be desirable, while maintaining the edge strength and sharpening characteristics of k390.

Beat me too it.
Another vote for Vancron super clean.

As a heads up it's rare and expensive. So far @DeadboxHero is the only one to ever make a knife out of it.

I do plan to work with this steel in the future. The carbides are SUPER fine.
As in 1 Micron or LESS. And nitrogen for extra awesome. Vanadium nitrides for the win!!!


Larrin ahh another excellent choice.
Love Vanadis 8.

 

[craytab]

Hi everyone,
ill try to keep it short and put all the details at the end so you may decide not to read them.

1) What steels are comparable or better than K390? (edge holding > grain structure/sharpness > toughness > rust resistance)

2) What do you think about the lanyard solution on Folts Minimalist (it has a cut groove at the end instead of a hole. In my design is a hole because i think its easier to make and the scales can be weak with a groove)

3) Would anyone be able to make a me a custom knife (see below) for a reasonable price?


My design is very much based on the CRKT Minimalist that ive been EDCing on off since 2012.

The idea is to drastically improve the steel (currently leaning to K390) and customize several other aspects.
ideally made in europe to keep shipping costs at a minimum.

I took some time to put my ideas to a virtual 3D paper:



Feel free to give me your opinion.

EDIT: I wrote much more about my decision, each change and some aspects of making it (steel, price...) but it got too long so if youre interested in that you can read it here: http://freetexthost.com/i6ghyyc05z

Thanks everyone!

Don't just copy somebody else's work. I'm not sure a knife maker here would want to do that for you.

 

[TigFur]

Don't forget Vanadis 8.

Havent heard much about this one. Seems to be little info around i need some more research. i also stumbled upon a vanadis 10, is that 20% better?

You don't want a tip that will break, and you don't want a tip that will bend.

Thats generally true for every knife.

Changing the tail fob to a lanyard is actually a sticking point in my eyes.

That is correct and i havent made a model yet to try it but i suspect it would not be very comfortable either. That said my scale broke due to this weakspot. I value this opinion. Third idea is a sticking out piece of the metal as a ring for the lanyard as some knives do.

Folts uses CPM 154 a lot, which is a really good steel. He also uses damascus, which I know nothing about. Why not just get one of his customs.

I have looked around and havent found any sold, i found a few past offers that were all pretty steep priced due to the designs and folts knives seem to mainly focus on the art, which is cool but not my focus, i havent even thought about handle colors yet.

My intention was mainly the steel upgrade and ideally from europe. An easy to make and simple to grind knife to keep costs down.

Cpm 154 is good but not what i would want in a custom as you can get plenty good production knives in it for cheaper

Theres not many supersteel neck knives in production and those i found are really expensive or im not fond of the design. I mean if the price is the same ill rather try a custom.
I think i got this suggestion by someone on here about a year or two ago

I do plan to work with this steel in the future. The carbides are SUPER fine.
As in 1 Micron or LESS. And nitrogen for extra awesome. Vanadium nitrides for the win!!!

I hope theres a big interest so that it floods the market and becomes cheaper and then we can all enjoy it!
M390 also had a huge expansion lately. I think stainless steels have it easier.

Don't just copy somebody else's work. I'm not sure a knife maker here would want to do that for you.

This. I expected even more people to raise this complaint as i had a similar thought when i came up with the idea to customize this design.
Still how else do i find out if theres people willing to make it out of some crazy steel.
I prefer openly saying its using that minimalist as base than lying its my own design.

These days its hard to come up with a completely original yet still practical design. And designing it on pc without touching it means my expensive custom knife could be uncomfortable as hell. Better start with dimensions i can measure and be confident itll fit.

I did want some changes on the design (geometry, guard, spine...) and i drew the whole thing in 3D from scratch, which took me way too long thanks to bugs and my lack of experience.

In fact ive been working on it even after i posted this and still come up with adjustments.

Yesterday i changed the blade shape making it taller and tilted so that i could reach a cutting board with enough knuckle space, hopefully making the knife more versatile. It changed the look significantly but even if i change the look completely i still wont deny its heavily influenced and based on the minimalist.

Today after feathersticking for an hour i started to think about some handle changes as well. Its not too good for that specific purpose... Theres a high risk of ruining it though.

Part of me knows the knife is only so comfy because ive been carrying it for 7 years. Had i worn a different knife maybe id want a custom in that shape.

Anyway, i dont think a blacksmith making this knife should feel bad for it. Especially a one time custom. Every bowie, katana or whatever people request is a copy as well but the blacksmith is still the one doing all the work and making their own version of it.

 

[Larrin]

Havent heard much about this one. Seems to be little info around i need some more research. i also stumbled upon a vanadis 10, is that 20% better?

Vanadis 8 replaced Vanadis 10, designed to be an upgrade in toughness with similar wear resistance.

 

[TigFur]

I did some research on the steels...

K390 - Slightly less wear resistant than 10V but tougher.
Compared to M390 its more wear resistant and not stainless.
People have different opinions about its toughness compared to M390 but from all the data id say K390 is slightly tougher. It also has higher HRC which might be an aspect.
Its supposed to have a very fine grain structure, finer than M390 which is said to withstand fine edges well.
(i personally think that if one trades rust resistance one should get both a finer grain and a longer lasting edge at similar toughness. Otherwise it would be s bad trade)

10V - minor rolling and chipping compared to k390, less tough


15V - More brittle and wear resistant than 10V, id expect chips


k294 - 0.05% less in vanadium and chromium compared to 10V (basically the same thing)


A11 - is the same thing as 10V


Vancron - expensive, rare, probably awesome and possibly stainless. not much data on toughness


Rex 45 - high hardness around 67 hrc, wear resistance about half of 10V


Rex 121 - Retention slightly better than maxamet, also big carbides and brittle. Harder to sharpen than max.


Hap 72 - Not much info, very hard (cca 70hrc), also prefers high angles. People compare it to rex121 on spyderco forums and tend to choose rex over it


Asp2080 - Expensive, high carbides and angles, not much info


maxamet - high, recommended above 35° as it likes to chip


Vanadis 8 - more abrasive resistant than vanadis 4E but not as tough


Vanadis 10 - supposedly high carbide volume and shouldnt go less than 15°Dps, also more abrasive resistant than vanadis 4E but not as tough, i couldnt tell much difference comparing uddeholms graphs between vanadis 8 and 10.

Vanadis 8 replaced Vanadis 10, designed to be an upgrade in toughness with similar wear resistance.

I am also missing a piece of information that would link the vanadis steels with the rest. Vanadis 4e is supposed to be like cpm 4v but that doesnt mean that vanadis 10 is the same as cpm 10v


Most of these informations are based on very little data and some are assumptions by other more experienced people.


Still it seems that once one goes to an A11 point in wear resistance all of the steels start getting higher amounts of carbide and dislike lower angles in sharpening (its not really that surprising, is it)


K390 seems to be at the top while withstanding low angles with many people using it and noone complaining about it (with maxamet theres a ton of complaints with chipping)

is K390 perhaps the most balanced as far as fine structure and wear resistance go?

Do you guys agree with the information i gathered?

Btw im still working on the design, currently changing the handle. Its a little bit wild. Playing around with ergonomics.

 

[Larrin]

K390 has somewhat higher toughness than M390 according to Bohler’s numbers. 45J at 62 Rc for K390 and 39J at 58 Rc for M390. You can compare the microstructures of the two here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/

I don’t think ASP2080 is available anymore.

Vanadis 10 was designed to compete with 10V but its high Cr was a liability and made the toughness worse. Vanadis 8 is probably a bit lower in wear resistance but it is an improvement over Vanadis 10, in my opinion. Uddeholm seems to think so too since they are phasing out the Vanadis 10.

 

[ShannonSteelLabs]

K390 has somewhat higher toughness than M390 according to Bohler’s numbers. 45J at 62 Rc for K390 and 39J at 58 Rc for M390. You can compare the microstructures of the two here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/

I don’t think ASP2080 is available anymore.

Vanadis 10 was designed to compete with 10V but its high Cr was a liability and made the toughness worse. Vanadis 8 is probably a bit lower in wear resistance but it is an improvement over Vanadis 10, in my opinion. Uddeholm seems to think so too since they are phasing out the Vanadis 10.

Havent had the opportunity to try Vanadis 10. But I do agree, any info I've found is showing Vanadis 8 is an improvement over that.

In my testing I've seen 62-63HRC. Seems like there is potential to go past 64. Has good edge stability too.

 

[bobobama]

Interesting thread. Out of all the steels mentioned, I've heard of maybe three of them. And I pursue this forum regularly. Where have all the others been hiding?