ScooterG
You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine.
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Comparable steel to K390? How do you like the Minimalist lanyard? Plus a custom knife request
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Larrin
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Time to step up your game!
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Guess so!
naw, most of those steels are really hardly ever used, but some of them might catch on...
in the meantime, I say go for 3v - you want really tough stuff while keeping great edge retention
it's also popular these days, so the price has come down and many smiths are familiar with it
the only downside is it isn't stainless, but it won't rust like simple plain carbon steels either, imho it's almost the best of both worlds
in the meantime, I say go for 3v - you want really tough stuff while keeping great edge retention
it's also popular these days, so the price has come down and many smiths are familiar with it
the only downside is it isn't stainless, but it won't rust like simple plain carbon steels either, imho it's almost the best of both worlds
ShannonSteelLabs
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I would reccomend 4V or Z-Wear for increased edge holding. They are still very tough. And performance is excellent above 60HRC
Larrin
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I really like 4V and Z-Wear/CPM CruWear as all around steels, medium high in toughness and edge retention. They can be used in beefy choppers or taken thin for fine cutters, along with heat treatments adjusted to match, of course. The 10V-class steels are best for very high edge retention along with "good" toughness. They are as tough as the common PM stainless steels like S35VN or Elmax so they have sufficient toughness for many knives. The downside is that the 10V-class steels are more difficult to sharpen and more difficult to work for the maker.
That was a good read!
I am very surprised at how large the carbides of M390 / cv20 are. That doesnt correspond to its praise of fine well polished edges at all. It has those large grains close together though maybe that makes it so polishable...
K390 also seems not to corfespond with what i found, seems that simply comparing the carbides isnt equivlent to how strong and fine the edge can be. The article also reached a similar conclusion. Mostly it shows (rex121 looks as expected) but there are exceptions.
Yes, its only about having sufficient toughness to withstand its use and then as much wear resistance as it can.
Im not sure how much toughness this knofe needs though, its short, not a prybar, no batoning but on the other side it is thin with low angles.
I dont mind sharpening a tougher steel. Worst case it would improve my skill.
Finding a maker who works with these steels is gonna be harder.
I wonder if one can CNC those steels. That could possibly lower the cost and make sure the shape is correct asi designed it (and why not use the design when it exists)
Any input on K390 vs CPM 3V? What differences did you notice?
I am still learning but K390 to me seems to take a finer "sticky" sharp edge than 3V. Its hard because the 3V is on a Winkler and the geometry is different. If I had to choose between the two I would take K390. I think K390 is plenty tough for most applications, toughness is really not a major factor for me.
If you really get into it, you're going to find that most of the rampant information about knife steels is misinformed -- often seriously, that that includes from metallurgists, who often argue between themselves on this forum and other places.
K390 will be far more wear resistant than 3V, and 3V will be much tougher. The K390 just sings in my Phil Wilson South Fork because it's run hard (63 Rc), because the heat treat is excellent and because the geometry is aggressive enough to make use of the fine steel and heat treat. It has an edge width of 0.007 inches (compared to 0.030 for most EDCs), and the blade stock is .125 inches with a full distal taper (the spine is 0.045 inches a quarter inch back from the point) and a pointy point. It slices like crazy. But it would make an awful chopper.
This is an example of a design, construction and materials working together to make a dedicated slicer.
CPK builds an awesome Light Chopper in 3v. Totally different knife, design, heat treat and purpose.
Both are awesome knives, but if you swapped the steel, they would be horrible. Everything has to work together.
David Richardson
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As a user and not a maker these are very different steels. I have no doubt 3V is tougher. I haven't tested it against my K390 for durability. For the knives I've had K390 has much better edge retention at ~17 DPS. These were different knives with different geometry, but not even close for edge retention.
If you're considering 3V I would look at 4V. My Spyderco 4V Mule at ~65HRC had about the same edge retention as the K390 Mule (same edge, same rope). I'm sending that 4V to Cedric & Ada. We'll see if he finds the same thing.
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That's interesting, my k390 mule stays sharp longer than my 4v mule doing the same tasks, nothing formal though.
Twindog really hit it out of the park on this post.
If you are looking for excellent edge retention or toughness or whatever, it's the steel + heat treat + geometry. You gotta find a maker who specializes in what you are looking for. Phil Wilson is an absolute master at thin blades at high HRC with higher level steels. If you are looking at edge retention with no prying, he would be a good place to start.
David Richardson
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That's what I would expect. I was sure my first 4V test was bad so I re-sharpened and tried again. Same result within 5%. Could just be a rope thing and there would be a difference with other material. FYI, I tested both a 17 degrees and finished with a 1K diamond matrix stone.
Sounds like K390 is good for a thin blade the way i plan to use it
Now this makes me curious as from what i gathered the common opinion is that 10V lasts longer than 4V and is less tough and K390 is often compared to 10V
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They are there, you just have to look at the right forums.
I'm a fan of middle of the road steels, stainless and not. I edc a Gayle Bradley 1 with M4 and find it performs all my knife tasks very well with minimal maintenance. Another knife I have that I like has S90V. It holds up very well and is stainless, my M4 is not stainless but has not had any corrosion issues.
https://knifeup.com/how-good-is-cpm-s90v-knife-steel/
David Richardson
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Same here. No 10V Mule to compare to, unfortunately. Cedric & Ada shows about the same cuts for 10V and 4V but not with the same angles or sharpener. 4V is slightly ahead of 10V but the 4V was at 18 degrees vs 17 for the 10V, and the 4V was done on a sharpener where he typically gets better results. So somewhat inconclusive. K390 did significantly better, which makes my results questionable.
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10V is hard to beat when it's done correctly. Look at the thread below and see how a nice thin and hard 10V blade does. The beauty of knives that are correctly designed is that they also sharpen up easily. Go down to the coarse edge section, that 10V from Wilson will sharpen from completely draw-across-your-wrist dull to hair popping sharp in 2 or 3 minutes, easy, with almost no perceptible burr. So much for "super steels" being hard to sharpen.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/
The fact that the thread has 160 pages has scared me away...
But i did look and 10V has top positions. K390 is even behind 20CV, now thats something.
From my experience with the Minimalist, edge retention actually improves with lower angles and thinner edges (i guess less resistance less damage) at least with soft stuff...
They become very easy to break chip or bend with any harder use though.
Perhaps it just feels like it lasts longer because it cuts better thanks to the geometry even when its dull
