Compare & contrast; ATS34,BG42,D2,S30V,S110V,SG2,ZDP189

zdp 189 is the best super steel out there. it has the best edge retention, isnt too brittle, and is still pretty corrosion resistant. thats as close to perfect as it gets for me, especially if its laminated! however, s30v and s90v are tougher, more corrosion resistant, no more brittle, but do lack the -perfect- edge retention of zdp. s30v and s90v still have insane edge retention so you have to just take everything into consideration. s110v is over the top and a bit silly if you ask me. 440c, n690c, ats34, 154cm, and bg-42 arent on the same level in any way. d2 holds a super edge but it not only has very poor corrosion resistance, but its incredibly brittle, not really suitable for any knife if you ask me. i dont know much about infi besides that its a great steel, its really not important how good infi is because youre only going to get it through a busse blade and thats all you need to know. carbon steel isnt suited for folders if you ask me because its simply too high maintenance, but its a necessity for a chopper imo, unless youre getting a busse. i dont know what sg2 is and havent heard a thing about it, so as of now i dont trust it.

if you want the very very best stainless steel for a folder i say stick to: s30v, s90v, or zdp189. imo, a laminated zdp189 thats professionally hand heat treated and ground+sharpened correctly would be the absolute best option.
 
i'm glad you asked:

Adamantium is created through the mixing of certain chemical resins whose composition is a United States government secret. For eight minutes after the resins are mixed, the Adamantium can be molded into a particular shape as long as it is kept at a temperature of 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit. After this brief period the process of creating Adamantium is completed. The extremely stable molecular structure of the Adamantium prevents it from being molded further, even if the temperature remains high enough to keep it in liquefied form. Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium.

edgepro molecular rearranger anyone?
 
ginaz said:
i'm glad you asked:

Adamantium is created through the mixing of certain chemical resins whose composition is a united states government secret. For eight minutes after the resins are mixed, the adamantium can be molded into a particular shape as long as it is kept at a temperature of 1,500 degrees fahrenheit. After this brief period the process of creating adamantium is completed. The extremely stable molecular structure of the adamantium prevents it from being molded further, even if the temperature remains high enough to keep it in liquefied form. Only a device celled a molecular rearranger can alter the form of hardened adamantium.

Edgepro molecular rearranger anyone?
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LOL!!!:foot::p:eek:

I thought that it was Wolverine's Skeleton:o
 
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shecky said:
I'd be willing to bet most, if not all, forum members would not be able to tell any difference between any of the steels listed in the OP if it were possible to come up with a set of identical blades in those different steels. They're all pretty high end.
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I could if i could sit them in salt water over night.
 
I have enjoyed the info exchange here. As I assumed, my favorite S30V & BG-42 blades still aren't too shabby for folders. My A-2 fb knives, with proper care, are still decent, too. Of course, my Bucks in 420HC have proven to be quite functional - and easy to maintain - in my use. Finally, I still want a CB Kershaw in ZDP-189... nothing new there, either.

Thanks again to everyone for the info.

Stainz
 
If edge retention results are what you are looking for, search around for it here and you can find some good results (Phil Wilson, CATRA, Goddard). These results from a good rope slicing edge retention test of equal or near equal blades shows the newer high wear resistance steels will keep their edge the longest (S90V, 10V, FFD2 - they have not tested 110V). And if you compare the hardness and wear resistance of steels, this makes sense. When edge retention results fly in the face of what makes sense looking at the properties of the steels, I would recommend some skepticism.
 
i guess that comment might have been too harsh. what i tried to imply was that i respect s30v and s90v because they are tougher and more corrosion resistant than zdp189, while not being too brittle. they sacrifice zdp's almost perfect edge retention because of this but their edge retention is still off the charts so i dont think theres anything to improve upon. s30v and s90v are both brittle enough that if you dont heat treat it just right the edge will chip with practical use. having only used s110v for little stuff, my assumption is that it has better edge retention than s90v, but is more brittle, and therefore is too brittle imo.
 
ginaz said:
i'm glad you asked:

Adamantium is created through the mixing of certain chemical resins whose composition is a United States government secret. For eight minutes after the resins are mixed, the Adamantium can be molded into a particular shape as long as it is kept at a temperature of 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit. After this brief period the process of creating Adamantium is completed. The extremely stable molecular structure of the Adamantium prevents it from being molded further, even if the temperature remains high enough to keep it in liquefied form. Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium.

edgepro molecular rearranger anyone?
Click to expand...


Pardon me while I go clean my pants out from laughing so hard!:eek:;):D
 
walleyeguy7 said:
...but is more brittle (S110V), and therefore is too brittle imo.
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I haven't seen any initial reports of those using S110V coming in with edges chipping out, or complaints of brittleness.

Is this just speculation on your part based on S110V's composition, or is it your perception/reality based off of other Crucible steels (S30V, S60V, S90V}? Have you in fact run into brittleness issues with S110V?
 
These_Nutz said:
I could if i could sit them in salt water over night.
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I would agree and add to that, its going to depend on how many different steels you have used and sharpened. I had my run in with 110V, which is awsome for holding an edge, but sucks to sharpen. I actually had to reprofile and sharpen a friends Shallot.Tuff indeed! The Sebenza S30V is one of the best S30Vs I have used and takes an edge fairly easy. Just my experience though. Dozier D2 is fabulous for holding an edge. My folders with 154CM take a great edge easily, but need to be touched up regularly. I use them alot to cut foam 1-2in thick. The Sebbys need much less touch up when put through the same work.
I have an auto that is N690 and it holds an edge well. It gets used quite a bit for cutting high density fiber panels. The tip of the Tanto Blade just seems to work the best in our cutting table channels. I have some 5160 and 1095 choppers that have gotten some use chopping wood. Haven't had to sharpen them yet, so I would suspect they do well in that arena. I have no experience with ZDP-189 or S90V, but have an S90V skinner on order.
 
Thomas W said:
I haven't seen any initial reports of those using S110V coming in with edges chipping out, or complaints of brittleness.

Is this just speculation on your part based on S110V's composition, or is it your perception/reality based off of other Crucible steels (S30V, S60V, S90V}? Have you in fact run into brittleness issues with S110V?
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as i said, s30v and s90v are both brittle steels that will chip without a proper heat treat. i have seen several spyderco s30v knives including the sage chip with practical use, and i personally think spyderco does a very fine job heat treating their knives. brittleness is just an inherent trait of the s30v family. by increasing the carbon content of the blade you are also increasing the brittleness of the blade as well so because s90v has more carbon that s30v, it is more brittle, and because s110v contains even more carbon still, it will be more brittle. because i believe s30v to be sufficiently robust, and s90v to be borderline too brittle, i should think that s110v would be too brittle for my taste. but as with d2, im sure for some people the edge retention will eclipse the brittleness
 
This was an interesting early real world review on S110V.
midnight flyer said:
First, hello to the group. I have posted in the Kershaw subforum, but not here, so "hi" to everyone. I have spent a lot of time reading the forums here, and just like all the forums on every subject (I participate in a few) people can get offended easily.

If I am not respectful enough of someone's favorite knife, manufacturer or model, I apologize in advance.

Knives are tools to me, and I work 'em hard. I have been in construction for almost 35 years, and my knives have to fill a lot of tasks during the day. I appreciate a pretty knife and have a couple, but mine for the most part are users. Like most here, I have the standard shoe box with Case, Puma, Benchmade, Queen, Kabar, Browning, etc. All of them (except the tiny little Kershaw I keep to remove splinters and cut my cigars) are job site (and some camping and hunting) tested.

Generally speaking, my knives cut reinforced nylon strapping tape, "trim" boards, scrape, cut, slice, and punch holes into things I need to have in operation in a hurry. I know that some of the things I do with my knives are borderline abuse, but since I think of them as tools, sometimes they have to go above and beyond expectations.

This brings me to the Shallot 110V. I absolutely can't say enough good things about this knife and about the steel. The knife lays flat enough that I can put it in my jeans AND put on my tool bags without any discomfort. I have only had it a month or so, but so far no rusting, which is huge for me since I sweat like a pig. I have tried a lot of different steels but I always wind up with AUS6 or 8, for no other reason than the fact they don't rust in my pocket. Some of the AUS8s aren't bad, but the AUS6 isn't good except for my pen knife.

The real corrosion test for me and the 110V will be when the thermometer hits the 100 degree mark, which it does every year here in South Texas. Usually for 2 -3 months at a time. Then I will have definitive proof of the steel's corrosion resistance.

The edge holding of this knife is incredible. Actually, almost unbelievable. I reprofiled the edge as it was not as adept at slicing materials as I wanted it to be, and it has made this my favorite EDC. It was sharpened by me once when I got it, and then after only touched up after I dropped it on a concrete slab and it managed to hit the cutting edge right on the belly. No damage to the knife, it just rolled the edge over.

You will find the S110V blade to be thicker than that of the other Shallots in the line, why I don't know. But, I love the thicker blade. Since it keeps the overall dimension and appearance of the Shallot line, the thicker blade allows you to put a double bevel on the edge without getting too thin behind the cutting edge.

I started the reprofile with my large chef's diamond hone. I buzzed the steel right off. Talking to a friend of mine that makes knives, he told me to try the Lansky sharpener I have on the blade.
Roger at knifeworks told me the same thing. It worked like a champ.

I reprofiled with the coarse stone. Cleaned up the edges through the next grits, and the stopped at the fine stone, which I believe is 600 grit. This steel is so hard the 600 polishes it nicely. I polished the very edge with a 1200 grit ceramic, and the steel looks like it hair sized mirror stripe on the edge.

Total time to reprofile on the Lansky including final edge with ceramics was a little under an hour. Well worth the investment or time as I now know two things: 1) it isn't hard to sharpen and 2) I can see how the edge I like performs on this knife.

So far, I couldn't be happier. In fact, I will be buying another one just like this next week to keep aside when this one sprouts legs, or is finally torn up. I hope it isn't for a long time. I have a hard time finding a knife I really like, but this one is a winner.

Robert
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Although I have read and personally seen some edge chipping (on one knife (out of thousands)) with S30V. We as a company haven't seen this to be a problem with Crucible steels in general.

HT doesn't just stop with Crucible steels. Obviously if a steel gets a bad HT, it doesn't matter what it is, it's gonna be wrong and will have issues.

I'm also not at a point to be content with the current line up with high end blade steel. Although they all have their strengths and weaknesses, there is always room for improvement. We've pretty much used the entire spectrum of exotics, and I can tell you we shouldn't stop till it's perfect. :D
 
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