consensus on short barreled .45 ACP?

Midget

Midget

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so what are the 45 ACP gurus' opinions on shorter barreled 1911s?

i seem to remember reading in the past, some individuals poo-poo'ing the idea of a short barreled 1911 (something 3") because they wager the shorter barrel doesn't take advantage of the full power of a 45ACP.

so how does it compare to a 9mm? would you rather carry a 9mm from a 3" or 4" barrel, or a 45ACP from a 3" barrel? does it matter, in terms of stopping power?
 
For short-barreled 1911 type .45's, I've owned 3 Colt Officer's models, a couple short Detonics Combat models, and even a Star PD, but now-a-days, the shortest I'd go with in .45 ACP is a Colt (Combat) Commander. The slightly longer barrel of the Commander lets just alittle bit more of the powder to burn.
 
I would argue against an overly short 1911 from a reliability standpoint...traditional 1911's are locked breech, that is the slide and barrel stay in battery until the pressure drops to a safe level, barrel is pulled down by the link unlocking the barrel from slide, ... they do this with a pair of upper lugs that fit into recesses in the slide which is forward of the chamber area.... the Commander length gun has only one lug...as the barrel and slide is shortened further to the Officers Model length, the area the recoil spring can be compressed to before coil bind is further shortened, requiring double or triple counter wound springs, or excessive wire diameter. This compromises reliability, especially if the shooter limp wrists the pistol.... modern 9mm (not P35) like the Glock or Sig utilize the ejection port to act as the locking recess...typically they have a square chamber area and lock into an open top ejection port... the barrel does not require the use of a link (removing one breakable part) but does so at expense of allowing the barrel to unlock very quickly, and for very short pistols increase the vertical rise of the barrel when out of battery, and possibly starting to move while the projectile is still in the barrel.... timing of trigger disconnect is critical of these new generation pistols to insure that they cannot fire out of battery... to answer your question about burn rate....you can hot rod a load specifically for barrel length...I got 1400fps out of a G19 with 124gr XTP bullets with a healthy load of 3N37 and 1200fps with a 90gr XTP out of a .380 Colt PocketLight with PB.
 
The 45 slug is already a big slow bullet. To utilize a short barrel in my opinion slows it down too much. When you start getting into the low 700fps range I think you are losing too much power.
 
Yes reliability . When you start going below 4" and especially at 3" you have a increased chance of getting an unreliable pistol !!
 
ricklee4570 said:
The 45 slug is already a big slow bullet. To utilize a short barrel in my opinion slows it down too much. When you start getting into the low 700fps range I think you are losing too much power.
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this was what i was thinking as well. imo, you need faster and or more high pressured rounds in a short barrel to be more effective.. longer barrel, different story.. when i think of a .45, i think of a full size pistol. MAYBE a somewhat compact pistol but no barrel less than 4 inches.. i am no gun expert though.
 
I think the real complaint with a 3 inch 1911 style is the reliability. Everything I have seen terminal ballistics wise are that modern hollowpoints will penetrate to 12 inches and expand reliably even out of a 3 inch barrel. However, if you were concerned both Corbon and Speer make short barrel loads that are designed and tested to penetrate and expand out of sub 4 inch barrels.
 
Smash speaks the truth about reliability being the issue.

Any .45 coming out of any length barrel is going to create quite a boo boo.
 
The 1911 in 5" mil-spec form is a pretty darned reliable platform and that's where I'd stay. If I were to go to a short barrelled .45ACP it would be of a more modern design. As to whether or not I'd want a short barreled 9 or 45 I'd pick a Glock26 over a Glock36.
 
thanks for the input, everyone.


i'm finding threads on this topic from other firearms-related forums and getting the same answers i'm getting here.

so for 1911 style weapons, 3" is pushing it. from what i read, this is only applicable to 45ACP chambered 1911's. my understanding is, b/c the 45 is already a "low velocity" bullet, compared to 9mm or something, you would lose too much velocity from a 3" barrel and that could cause the weapon to malfunction.

this is not the case with other, non-1911 style weapons though and/or not-45acp.

so how about 3.5" ??


they key here is, i'd like a 1911 that balances conceal-ability with function.


i like 1911's that are as basic as possible. i don't like those extended beavertails, primarily. right now i'm looking at the Rock Island Armory " Compact Officer" model, pictured here:
http://journal.drfaulken.com/rock-island-armory-1911-compact-officers-model-review/

or the Springfield Armory "Champion" or Springfield Armory "Micro-compact."

i'm partial to Springfield Armory. the champion sounds good w/ 4" barrel, but the full size grip is harder to conceal. the micro-compact is right up my alley but we've all found 3" to be lesser desired.
 
Probably just old and confused however a 1911 variety .45 is a RECOIL operated action, not gas so bullet velocity out the end of the barrel is a non-issue as to action operation, IMHO.

My current shortest 1911 is 4" - Kimber Pro Carry II.

Some folks may from time to time have feeding/reliability issues with any 1911 .45 ACP if they "limp wrist" while firing. Leetle guns can be a handful to shoot well...torque, muzzle blast and shorter sight radius.
 
My personal opinion is that in a 1911 a commander is as small as one should go. Seen to many of the micros crap out and have feeding issues. As far as the caliber is concerned, I'd stay above a 3" barrel to get as much as you can from the platform. I carry a Glock 36... never had a single feeding issue and it generates perfectly acceptable combat accuracy. It's not the tack driver my Ed Brown 5" is... but it will definitely hit COM at 25 yards all day long and with a beefed up wolf recoil system I run +Ps in it and still have quick follow up shots. I've never Chronoed it but my personal stance is that, assuming a fast burning powder, the +P is going to allow me to keep SOME of my velocity even in a shorter barrel. Not much... but my hope is that a +P in a 3.78" barrel is gonna act like a regular 45acp in a 4.25" barrel. And that's been dropping bad guys for a LOOOOOONG time. 45 in anything over a 3" barrel is gonna leave a mark. I love 9mm, but I carry a 45 because I might only get one shot and I want them to remember me.
 
Unk said:
My current shortest 1911 is 4" - Kimber Pro Carry II.
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+1 on Kimber!

There are "better" rounds for the shorter .45s that still offer good performance. The biggest question is how to you intend to carry? I have no problem with my IWB or Paddle Holster for my full size Kimber. My IWB (Milt Sparks Holster) for my Colt Officer's model fits very nice as well.

Both are comfortable to carry but small is obviously easier to conceal.

I say, get one in each size!:D

Nathanial4
 
i intend to carry strong side (right side) IWB preferably with a leather holster. something thin.


i have taken note of your comments regarding other platforms in 45ACP. i actually already own (and carry) a glock 26. my intent is to change to a higher caliber carry weapon, b/c if i'm going to be limited on ammunition capacity (10 rounds or less) i may as well carry as "much" bullet as possible. right now i'm not limited to ammunition capacity, so i carry a g26 for light days, and a g19 w/ 15 rounds for heavier days.


my intent is to also switch to a thinner platform, so i think 1911 would be nice. like glocks and all, but the frame is too thick, and if i don't get to take advantage of the double-stack magazines (due to capacity restrictions) then i may as well go for something thinner and higher power.

or maybe not. if i don't find anything decent and fitting i'll stick with my G26 and 10-rounders for my g19 and live with it.



i've held the RIA compact, which fits nicely but is 3.5" barrel.

i've also found a used cold officers model, used, but not overly abused, for $730.00, which was a slightly steep price but exactly what i am looking for. 4" barrel w/ a shortened frame. and colt bragging rights.
 
If money is an issue, check out a Star PD...make sure no one has attacked the feed ramp....check the firing pin energy... make sure you can launch a pencil out of the barrel held vertical with eraser over firing pin hole
 
Midget said:
so what are the 45 ACP gurus' opinions on shorter barreled 1911s? i seem to remember reading in the past, some individuals poo-poo'ing the idea of a short barreled 1911 (something 3") because they wager the shorter barrel doesn't take advantage of the full power of a 45ACP.
so how does it compare to a 9mm? would you rather carry a 9mm from a 3" or 4" barrel, or a 45ACP from a 3" barrel? does it matter, in terms of stopping power?
Click to expand...


I have an officers model in a Colt, It goes boom every time and I have had no problems with it at all.

I'm not sure how much power you need for the bullet to penetrate a person but I'm pretty sure it will go fast enough. If I had a choice I'd rather have my full size 1911 series 70, however your question relates to the 3" gun.


Stopping power normally depends on where you hit someone but the 45 makes a lot bigger hole than the 9 does so I would pick the 45. Just my feelings on the topic others might disagree.
 
A bobtail or shorter grip/single stack might let you make up for a longer barrel from the grip end.
 
I would hold out for a .50 sub 3" barrel. Based on the current path of compacts, I'm sure it's coming.
 
Midget said:
i intend to carry strong side (right side) IWB preferably with a leather holster. something thin.


i have taken note of your comments regarding other platforms in 45ACP. i actually already own (and carry) a glock 26. my intent is to change to a higher caliber carry weapon, b/c if i'm going to be limited on ammunition capacity (10 rounds or less) i may as well carry as "much" bullet as possible. right now i'm not limited to ammunition capacity, so i carry a g26 for light days, and a g19 w/ 15 rounds for heavier days.


my intent is to also switch to a thinner platform, so i think 1911 would be nice. like glocks and all, but the frame is too thick, and if i don't get to take advantage of the double-stack magazines (due to capacity restrictions) then i may as well go for something thinner and higher power.

or maybe not. if i don't find anything decent and fitting i'll stick with my G26 and 10-rounders for my g19 and live with it.



i've held the RIA compact, which fits nicely but is 3.5" barrel.

i've also found a used cold officers model, used, but not overly abused, for $730.00, which was a slightly steep price but exactly what i am looking for. 4" barrel w/ a shortened frame. and colt bragging rights.
Click to expand...

If you get around to it... check out the Glock 36. It's 6+1, is thinner than the Glock 26, light weight, and feels good in the hand. I put pearce +0 grip plates on it and the gun melts in my hands. I carry it in a Mitch Rosen clipper IWM at the 1 o'clock position and forget it's there sometimes.

IMHO you have to be willing to lose your carry weapon. It... more than any other weapon in your arsenal is going to be exposed to abuse and risk. Owning a Gock 26 you know they are durable, cheap, and effective. Most people over look the Glock 36. I'd absolutely die if I lost my Ed Brown SF. If I lost my Glock 36... I'd be unhappy... but I'd just buy another one.
 
Something I've heard from knowledgeable 1911ers, which might act as a pinch of salt:

Much of the lore about short-barreled 1911s being unreliable stems from the days when people would chop down 5" Government models to be more carry-friendly, without making the necessary changes to the (timing-sensitive) action. The result was pistols that were unreliable, or finicky at best.

Modern short-barreled 1911s (and 1911-alikes or reinventions, like the Springer EMP or the little P238) were specifically designed with short barrels in mind. Their recoil assemblies are different, the spring weights are changed, and I'm sure barrel lockup and the bushing — if present — are designed to work correctly with the shorter barrel.

A 3" bull-barrel 1911 with a RecoilMaster, like most short STIs, pretty much only shares with a Government model the fact that it has two locking lugs to mate slide and barrel, and that the barrel assembly pivots around the slide stop. No bushing, different recoil assembly, different radius on the firing pin stop, maybe different mainspring strength… and thus different timing. It's a very different beast than a chopped gun.

There are a great many people who have put tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds through 3"-4" 1911s without problems, so saying that they are inherently unreliable is inaccurate. From what I've seen, the reliability of most Kimbers seems to be inversely proportional to barrel length!

All that said, a 3" 1911 will have a shorter sight radius (and thus be less accurate for the typical shooter), have more noticeable muzzle flip (and with a shorter grip be less controllable), and muzzle velocity will naturally be lower. These are the tradeoffs that people make to get a gun they can or will carry.

Me, I don't have much trouble concealing a 4.25" barrel, so I wouldn't bother going below 3.5". It's the grip that prints when bending.
 
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