Considering a 'wilderness' survival knife, interested in feedback

M

Mtnclimber69

Joined
Oct 23, 2002
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OK, so I am thinking about what exists and all the hype of what has been talked about so far on the threads... I am a big Busse and Swamp Rat fan, so this is coming from someone who loves quality and good design.

I just read a book called "Touching Spirit Bear" which if you read it would make you think of living alone in the woods having little to use to survive other than your wit and a knife... of course the story is much more involved but I am just saying it made me think of a new knife....

By reading through Gundy's old posts had learned about Peter Jensen www.jenseneliteblades.com I have been talking to him about a project blade which would work very well for climbing and mountaineering survival situations, more on that later!

He also has the following knife which looks like it incorporates a lot of great features...

Is there anyone who can comment on the knife, as well as what they think would be a great knife able to perfom well in a wilderness (not to be confused with combat) situation where you need one great tool to help you survive. This could also be your primitive camping tool, where survival is not necessarily in question.


THE EVOLUTION SURVIVAL KNIFE, made by Peter Jensen.
The standard Evolution Survival is $395us. (delivered)
KNIFE SPECS: 6.75" long ATS34 blade 1/4" thick chisel ground (left or right handed) with differential heat treatment after stress relieving,
hardening, triple temper and cryo(by Hills H/T), Serrations can be square tooth for easy resharpening in the field or pointed for better all-round cutting, The inner curve on the main edge increases cutting performance by trapping materials being cut within the curve, and allows superior control when the blade is being used as a draw knife. The forward portion of the curve also presents at a very efficient angle when used for chopping (similar to a kukri)
The chisel ground edge aids in the knifes ability to be used crafting other tools,weapons, utensils and traps, as it functions similarly to a wood/carving chisel. Chisel ground knives are about the easiest knives to sharpen... you do all the "work" on the ground side, and gently wipe the burr off the flat side (keeping the blade as flat to the stone as possible. The optional hole in the blade can be used to aid in arrow crafting and straightening Handle is full tang with micarta handle slabs secured with epoxy and stainless bolt fasteners ,sculpted grip grooves provide additional traction
in all environments (handle length is based on your hand size and personal preferances)."Medium" and "Long" handle sizes allow the knife to gripped to the rear for extra leverage when chopping. Exposed steel butt is bevelled for prying and levering (thus saving tip of the knife), and can be used for shattering rock pieces for inprovised tools/weapons the EVO has matt beadbleast finish
SHEATH SYSTEM: Kydex belt sheath held together with Chicago Screws allowing the sheath to be stripped and cleaned when dirty. Includes nylon pouch and accessory band (for additional knife or pouch)(Scout carry sheath is also available)
 
This seems to be another version of the TOPS/Beck type of knife. It would be interesting to have someone collect all the variations and test them side-by-side.

Peter
 
Oooooooooo... just too many choices!! ;) :D :D While the TB Tracker & others built along the same lines look to be handy as choppers & drawknife blades, IMHO the tips appear too blunt-of-point for a lot of the work I ask my knife (or knives) to do. To be honest though, my knife chores aren't wilderness survival specific (for which such knives are designed), but more suburbanite light-weight tasks. I know, "Use the right tool for the job." :rolleyes:

Some of my choices for a single woods knife are:
- Busse Battle Mistress (your choice of flavors) or Steel Heart
- Swamp Rat Battle Rat or Camp Tramp
- Trace Rinaldi Armageddon
- Bill Siegle Hoodlum II large or medium (12" or 8")
- Becker Knife & Tool BK9 or BK7
- some of the blades from Bowles Knives or Mineral Mountain
- a large bowie or camp knife. If you insist on names, I seem to usually like the work I see from Matt Lamey, Tom Ferry, RW Clark (esp models 11 & 12), Nick Wheeler, Gary Rodewald, Dennis Riley, Robert Hankins, Greg Covington, Fred Ott, Ed Fowler, and Mark Hazen. And that list does great injustice to the many other fine makers out there whose names I've forgotten.
- Jensen (JEB) Aus-Tac custom if it were double-ground instead of chisel ground (a new fave since I just went to his site via this thread ;) )

My "one knife only" blade is still the Busse Basic 7 for its size, comfortable handle, carryability, toughness, and field sharpening ease. However, the Busse ZT Steel Heart & its little buddies for which Okuden (Brian Wagner) made a special sheath would IMHO make a fine carry setup for wilderness survival. :D

attachment.php
 
there seem to be too many bells and wistles here for me. most of the survival skills i have practiced are easily done with a combo of a small knife/ saw (SAK ruksack type) and a larger chopper like a becker brute or BK-9, or a small axe. what does all this stuff on a knife do for you? i dont like chisel ground knives as the cutting edges are asymetrical when used with either hand as a survival knife would be. i am much more simplistic in my needs for a tool. it seems that a tool that is designed to do all these different tasks seems not to do any of them as well. most of what you need to do is cut things, a knife with good steel and heat treating will do that for you. just my thoughts, i am by no means an expert as some here are much more accomplished at the skills than i am.

alex
 
You might want to look at some of the fine blades made by Barry and Phillip Jones.

They have some standard designs, but will also work with you on what you think you might need. I have a dive knife made by them as well as a few others and their work is top notch as is their customer service.

Here is one of their blades..
jk-23.jpg


JK-23 – Combat/Survival knife
Blade length - 7" - 8”& 9” blade lengths are also available
Overall length - 12"
Steel - 3/16" D2
Finish - Hand rubbed satin
Handle scales – Black linen Micarta
Sheath - Kydex belt sheath with accessory pocket
Price - $300 (7” blade) - $325 (8” blade) - $350 (9” blade) + shipping

Check those prices out! You get a lot for your money.
http://www.customknives.com/jonesbrothers/
 
Maybe I am further puzzuling it all, but my best all around knife is a Fehrman FJ.
I had a Busse SH-E, and it is an excellent all around knife for when I did need it not to intefere with my movements and carry it all day (Thank you Greenjacket), but when it gets to bushcraft for fun, my FJ is the best. It is much more confortable in the hand than my old Busse, weights JUST the same (500g, surprisingly) and, honestly, holds a better edge and is a breeze to strop.
I got a custom sheathe for it to carry my Jim Burke Prick knife on the side, and a pouch for a fire starter, tinder, a sharpening rod and a SAK (the one with pliers and a metal saw).
I think that no matter what knife you choose, a firestarter and some dry tinder should always be with it, at least to help you if you have trouble building a fire by other means.
Up to now, about bushcraft-survival.
For camping I carry my Jim Burke Stalker, and I find it more than perfect for these chores. It is light, beatiful, very strong, thin and one hell of a cutter. Does everything I need perfectly.
By the way, the JK-23 looks really, really nice.
Jaime.
 
Since I have to tote it into and out of the situation, I'll stick with my Fallkiniven A1. If I had porters, I'd choose something else.:D For me, weight and useful utility are the primary factors. I have 3 compound bows, and they're not good enough to insure a deer every year:rolleyes: so I doubt I'll be wasting time fashioning arrows, or building log cabins for that matter. No masonry work, etc. RokJok, when I grow up, that's what I want. Nice combo.
 
Mtnclimber69 , something else for your consideration......
(and i'd appreciate everyone elses feedback too)

ALPHA SURVIVAL... a "simpler" blades style ,but retaining many of the EVOs' great handling characteristics. V-ground or chisel ground.

This one is chisel ground from 3/16" D2, natural linen micarta handle with nickel-silver corby bolts.


xALPHAsurvival.jpg


btw: RokJok, i also make the AUS-TAC in V-grind ;)
 
JP, I love that knife. The ironwood is superb, and the blade shape is very useful. I am working on something similar and will try to post a pic of the blade(minus handle slabs, since it's not close to done).
 
thats superb work, and a great design.... congratulations.
Id like to see one in beadblasted stainless and micarta ;)
Keep up the good work mate
 
Hey guys thanks for the replys so far, let's keep this one going for a while... I do think there is room in the old collection for another knife and the thought I had was to have something where I would not need to think of having to bring a leatherman or small knife to do other chores... I just want one knife, able to do as much as possible, something top quality with some soul to it.

I keep going back to Peter Jensen's site and looking at the EVO Spec Ops... if you guys have not seen this go have a look, it is pretty hot. I would post a picture but don't know how, so if one of you guys could I would appreciate it. here is the link:
http://www.jenseneliteblades.com/images/EVO_Spec_Ops.jpg

As for being able to make my own arrows, I doubt that would ever happen, but certainly being able to build a shelter, dig, chop, and also be able to do small chores like skinning, gutting a fish, and so forth are probable. Like I said I may never NEED this to survive, but I do intend on doing a lot of primitive camping and do not want to have to lug around a bunch of extra metal if I don't have to.

I already own a few Busses like the SH-E and BM-E, so unless I find something new and of obvious advantage in design I will be carrying one of those.

...unable to see the knife you posted J.P.,

...Peter, I think the blade design you put up looks great. The fat belly makes me think it would be great for skinning and general camp chores. I do really like the effort you put into ergonomics on the handles, though I have never held one it looks comfortable.
 
Originally posted by RokJok
However, the Busse ZT Steel Heart & its little buddies for which Okuden (Brian Wagner) made a special sheath would IMHO make a fine carry setup for wilderness survival. :D
Click to expand...

Would you be willing to provide a "guided tour" of that sheath for me? I'd love to know exactly what all of those items are.

--Bob Q
 
Ok, here is a crappy pic of two blades I am working on. The bigger one on top is forged L6, and will be my personal camp knife. Blade is 7.5" and is flat ground. Overall length is a hair under 13".

The other blade is a nice piece of Kevin Cashen's O1/L6 random pattern damascus in 160 layers.
 
------------------
Originally posted by bquinlan
Would you be willing to provide a "guided tour" of that sheath for me? I'd love to know exactly what all of those items are.
------------------

Hi Bob, Sure thing!! :) The accessories tucked into the outer layer of the sheath are a Gerber diamond sharpening rod along the spine of the blade, a Seber-Tech M4 mini-multi-tool, a Swedish military model Firesteel with scraper, and an orange flat whistle.

Couple more pix & info here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260429

Danbo, Those are mighty dang nice blades!! :cool: (where's the slobbering drooly emoticon when you need it?) Thanks for sharing. The big one appears to my eye to be a hybrid between a drop point and the shape of the very utilitarian Benchmade Griptilian semi-sheepfoot blade, which ain't bad pedigree to bring to the party. ;) :D It looks like it just begs to be used. Does that leaf-shaped blade on the little one have a distal taper?
 
It doesn't yet, but it is a long way from being done. The top blade is heat treated, but the damascus blade is not yet. Still undecided as to what handle slabs to use on the damascus one. The top one will be getting nice, thick green canvas micarta slabs.
 
Mtnclimber69 , Just some comments on the basic design :

6.75" long ATS34 blade 1/4" thick
Click to expand...

That would stop any personal consideration. For a knife used to do a lot of wood working and other heavier cutting chores, the steel needs to be durable (high impact toughness, ductility and strength) to prevent damage, not just gross damage but the microscopic damage which will induce premature edge blunting. ATS-34 is a brittle and not very ductile cutlery steel. The performance of the knife would benefit vastly from something like L6 which Danbo has used in the knives below.

The inner curve on the main edge increases cutting performance by trapping materials being cut within the curve, and allows superior control when the blade is being used as a draw knife.
Click to expand...

The first is true (any recurve does this), the second isn't (or at least not necessary to have that extent of curvature), draw knives are not so heavily contoured. Plus the drawback is also ignored which is the lack of a smooth continuous cutting surface which can limit functionality in various ways.

The forward portion of the curve also presents at a very efficient angle when used for chopping (similar to a kukri)
Click to expand...

It is at the wrong angle, the center of curvature should be perpendicular to the handle or slightly dropped to reduce wrist strain, in this case it is actually upward which induces more wrist angle necessary. It also completely restricts chopping to that section of blade.

Chisel ground knives are about the easiest knives to sharpen... you do all the "work" on the ground side, and gently wipe the burr off the flat side
Click to expand...

You can do the same thing with a v-ground blade if you want. As well for general cutting chisel grinds are generally inefficient as they do not allow smooth transfer of power to the blade as the forces they experience in use are uneven. Yes, a lot of chisels are chisel ground (hence the name), however are a lot of axes, machetes, and hunting knives?

There are a lot of very nice aspects of the knife, extended handle, take apart sheath, square tipped serrations. However the handle looks also very grip specific, turn it around for example so that the sharp point behint the index finger cutout faces the palm, I don't imagine this is very ergonomic. Plus just look at trying to baton that knife, you will be smashing into a serration pattern, not a great idea.

The blade is essentially a very heavy recurve, on some tasks you will very well appreciate the recurve, on others a smooth plain edge is much more beneficial. In general I would vastly prefer a much simpler design like the knives you already have, or the ones Danbo has shown, they are also out of *much* more optimal steels.

-Cliff
 
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