Considering a 'wilderness' survival knife, interested in feedback

Originally posted by RokJok
Hi Bob, Sure thing!! :) The accessories tucked into the outer layer of the sheath are a Gerber diamond sharpening rod along the spine of the blade, a Seber-Tech M4 mini-multi-tool, a Swedish military model Firesteel with scraper, and an orange flat whistle.

Very nice! I like the idea of combining all your essential survival tools into one sheath. I probably would have included a small flashlight of some kind, but it might be more convenient to carry that elsewhere anyway.

Thanks for the info!

--Bob Q
 
Hey Cliff, thank you for the detailed response. Now you have me rethinking what the best design could be for my purposes, insert a confused looking face here.

Could you answer the following?

What do you think the best steel for such a knife would be, maybe best two since I think you will say INFI is one. I do think ATS-34 is a good steel as Strider uses it and has no complaints with the end result... unless I am missing something?

What do you think the best blade design would be.

What do you think the best blade length would be.

Cheers!

PS, this kind of interraction is exactly why I come here... great people with great knowledge, and of course a shared interest in sharp objects. :eek:
 
For blade steels, I would get something that is very tough so as to resist damage large and small, this is for a large chopping class knife of course, for a small utility blade you would go with other steels. So in general you are looking at steels like L6, 5160 and the plain carbon steels like 1084 (lots of others of course, these are just some common ones). Some of these steels can easily get very hard, but you want durability so the HRC should be ~58 to maintain flexibility.

Steels like ATS-34 are very strong, but will crack with almost no give when overstressed. Strider makes very thick blades so this is not easy to do, but still, for that kind of knife I would want it to give before it breaks for many reasons. This is not only relevant to the main body of the blade but just the edge. Consider whacking it into a hard object, the edge will deform, and you don't want it to fracture readily, but instead bend and impact.

For a blade design, I would keep it simple. For this you really need to know what you are doing and what else you have. With only one knife then you want to keep the design even more general. A very thin point for example makes a lot of precision work much easier but limits scope of work. I would personally use a drop point or even the traditional tanto (not the cold steel version) to keep the tip strong, with the Swamp Rat military or penetrator tip to enhance penetration.

The blade profile should be wide enough to give good cutting ability, which is about two inches on 1/4" stock. You want the edge ground nice and thin, about 0.035" after sharpening (15 degrees per side, 22 degree micro bevel for durability in extremes). This leaves it thick enough for even the hardest of impacts without danger of rippling. That edge thickness is based on my use (I would go with a 10/15 degree split on the edge personally), if you are a real brute you might need to go thicker, but even 0.035" has a decent safety margin. Seriously if you have the ability to ripple that edge chopping, you probably don't need a knife and can just haul trees down.

For the blade length, I would not go much under 10" in a one knife senario. It just becomes too awkward for brush work, and this is a large part of gathering materials for shelter construction, fire, bedding, clothes and food. Personally I would go 12"-14" and all these tasks now become much easier. Above 14" and it starts to become awkward for me to do knife like work with the blade. Your own physical abilities play a part here of course. Now the precise cutting chores do start to become awkward here with the longer blade lengths, but in general these are not nearly as physically demanding anyway.

As with most of these factors there isn't a right or wrong. I would choose 1/4" blade stock for example, but this may be too heavy for some and thus inefficient. In that case a 3/16" blade would be much more efficient and more functional. In some cases physical ability would allow even heavier blades like the very large khukuris that are often offered by HI. There are quite a few people happy with these large blade. I am still working on being functional with brush cutting with my 22" Ang Khola.

-Cliff
 
wow Cliff... I think I will just bring you with me and skip the knife!

That was a great reply and full of info... very appreciated.

So anyone think they know what options exist with these parameters?
 
I would go with a Dave Beck WSK, SAK, and Leatherman and I bet if you had some skills you could make anything from these Knives.
 
The best way to get more specific information about variations is to use a few knives. This way you can say things like "The XXX proved to be very nice for ZZZ, but I would like a knife which does YYY better, or is more UUU instead. I have a couple of large Martindale knives (Jungle Knife, Paratrooper) which would be a good starting point. Drop me an email if you are interested.

-Cliff
 
there seem to be too many bells and wistles here for me. most of the survival skills i have practiced are easily done with a combo of a small knife/ saw (SAK ruksack type) and a larger chopper like a becker brute or BK-9, or a small axe

Ah, your a man after my own heart Alex. Give me the combo you describe over an all singing all dancing knife any day. Use the right tool for the job and the job becomes much easier to accomplish.

I personaly carry a 4.5" knife, which is great for food preparation (you ever tried peeling potatoes, root vegetables, skinning small game and of course numerous other chores to varied to mention, with a 10"+ survival knife)?

A folding saw with spare blade, which goes through tree limbs etc like... well a hot knife through butter I guess. (I challenge any saw back survival knife to beat my pack saw for speed and ease of effort).

A Gransfors small wood axe, for shelter preparation, firewood and many other chopping chores. Again no large knife could come near the chopping power and performance of this tool.

At the end of the day a big part of survival is getting the necessary jobs done with the least expenditure of effort. Having said all this I do understand that my equipment has a weight deficit to pay for it's efficency over an all in one "bells and whistles" knife, but I feel it's worth it.

Course this doesn't mean to say I don't want one of those cool looking knives :D

Cheers Tony
 
I have a couple of Busses and love them. My Battle Mistress is one of my favorite knives, but in the one knife senario that you mention I would most likely carry a Khukuri of suitable dimentions. Some of my khukuris have chakma and karda (accessorie tools) of good enough size to be right for the small knife chores and the khuk will out chop most other knives that I have used. Just a thought. Besides a great khuk from Himalayan Imports is far cheaper than most custom or factory knives one would look at to do the same duty.:)
 
Diversity is a wonderful thing... notice how there are no clear winners yet, but we are all having fun thinking about it and agree that the 'ugly' knives are pretty cool after all.

I am definitely a Busse fan having a Battle Mistress and a couple others that would fit the bill...for big knife that is. I just can't escape the idea that this design has more to it than those of us with no time holding one can as of yet see. I keep going to look at the pictures of the models on Peter Jensen's site, along with looking at the Beck and Tops models. They may not be the clear winner for cutting down a cherry tree, but then who am I to argue with Tom Brown about a design he spent years creating? Not to mention the other great makers who seem to be supporting themselves with this general design. I doubt it would sell if it had no merit at all... then again I have to remind myself of the pet rock. :rolleyes:

This would be a great knife to pass around and give folks an idea of what they can and can't do well.
 
Hey there,

If I had to bring along only one knife for survival use, well... honestly I'd choose my good old Tramontina Bolo. I'd probably prefer a Martindale version in the same design, but for now the Tramontina does the job very well.

Yup. Call me crazy... :^)

Survival work, in the woods, is mainly about chopping and skinning, IMHO. Some minor wood carving, but not that much... To me, the bolo is a great design for woodland survival use:

It's an incredible chopper. Pound for pound, it's much better than a Becker Brute or anything alike. The blade is very thin, but the steel is soft (I don't know the RC, but I'd guess for a 53-55 RC), so it doesn't break and bends very easily. It requires some resharpening pretty often, but honestly, who here is not resharpening his knife after almost every use? ;^)

The rounded tip is great (I mean *great*) for skinning (it does require some reworking though, as the tip of those things usually comes very blunt). I skinned some deers and a black bear with my bolo. Holding the blade on it's back, near the tip gives great precision and leverage for cutting the skin and detaching it from the meat. It works fine. And when it's bone cutting time, well... you do need the extra chopping power.

Best regards,

David
 
After months of back and forth, pro and con, rationalizing the $$ and then realizing I was going to do it sooner or later -- I finally ordered a
Fehrman FJ. The reason I went with this knife was the steel, the overall blade design and the reputation of Eric Fehrman. Ron Hood went to Fehrman when he wanted to design his Hood Hunter and although I wasn't drawn to the HH blade style (a great knife but little to pointy for me), the FJ did get my attention. Regardless, it's in the pipeline and hopefully I'll give it a workout this August in NW WA.
 
Congratulations on your Fehrman order. I have a new FS and love it! I just ordered my second, a PM.

I hope you get it in August, but my FS took twice as long as he quoted. He's very busy, but well worth the wait.

I think Eric's work is one of the best of the new makers. His fit and finish is very impressive. I don't know how he does it, but the edge retention of his steel is like none that I've ever used. I can't wait until he comes out with a folder.

Let us know how you like it.

S.
 
Congrats to both of you,Sidewinder and ras.

I have been using my Fehrmans for a couple of years now and they are SUPERB in every way,My FJ cuts like no other big blade I have used and chops like a beast, yet holds its edge for a very long time, I have only had to strop my blade :)

I agree with everything Sidewinder said,Erics attention to detail is second to none is outstanding.

Again congrats on your new blades by Fehrman,may they give you a lifetime of joy to use.
 
P.S Sidewinder is right,Eric has been VERY busy which is a good thing.

ras, did Eric say if you would be getting the new style of the FJ?
 
Thanks ras!! You da man... :)

Paleo25, Brian Wagner (Oku here on BFC) who made that sheath for me can be reached at at his public email addy of okuden@earthlink.net
 
If anyone is interested, I ordered a Fehrman Final Judgement on July 7th and it arrived today July 16th -- 9 days including the weekend.

The FJ is definitely designed to chop. Heavy spine but the edge is much thinner so it looks like it could slice too. Next trip to the Cascades should be a hoot.
 
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