CONTINUATION~'Word association and knives' (started by 'The General' ) Archive #4

teacher

teacher

Joined
Apr 11, 2001
Messages
2,978
General,
I am really sorry you have had such bad luck w/ your Benchmades. All of mine have been perfect and of high quality.

It says you are from UK, Wales. Is that some 'third world country'??

Maybe you are getting 'knockoffs'. That is, a cheap imitation of the quality knives "All" of my BM's are.

Could this be????? "Whadda' u think??????????

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teacher
****
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">It says you are from UK, Wales. Is that some 'third world country'??</font>
Click to expand...

Ooo, that might hurt.
biggrin.gif


/Colinz
 
I'm with Teacher, I have owned about 8 BM knives and they have all been of very good quality. I really like BM knives.
 
I just have to mention my large BM Ascent. It is set up for tip down carry, and I can't change it on my own since it seems to be missing two out of three metal threaded inserts at the other end!
I'll try sending it back when I get unlazy enough to pack it, since my other knives are tip up.

BTW, all my revolvers are "clockwise cylinder rotating," and my service autos are either SA or Glock "safe action."

On the other hand, my Festiva and my K-car do not have compatable wiper and bright switches. I'm lucky THAT hasn't gotten me killed yet!
biggrin.gif


Tactically obsessed,
Karl

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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by teacher:
It says you are from UK, Wales. Is that some 'third world country'?? </font>
Click to expand...

eek.gif

 
Teacher-- I notice you're from Alabama-- maybe you shouldn't be talking about third world countries ;-) just kidding of course, but it is kinda strange to insult Wales just because General has had some problems with Benchmade QC. Heck, I saw a Pinnacle in a local store that was so loose and sloppy that I just handed it back to the salesman and we both kinda smiled at each other. Besides, this was an interesting thread until it degenerated into a Benchmade/General bashfest. Anyone else have some more cool word associations?
 
Josh, ouch! That was cruel but funny. Down here in Georgia, we regard Alabama as another planet. Just kidding.

Name associations? Hmm.

Microtech - Exquisite Workmanship
CRKT - Affordable Quality
Benchmade - Impressive
Schrade - Definately Wal-Mart
Smith & Wesson - Ripoff
Emerson Knives - Overpriced Overrated
Spyderco - Cool Designs
Chris Reeve - Rock Solid
Cold Steel - Sharp

 
Bashfest over.

Back to cool headed General.

Hmm here are some more!

Microtech= huba huba!
Militec-1=Slippery!
Tuf Cloth=Rust, what rust?
CPM 440V Military= Why the hell are you taking me to the sharpmaker? I'll cut ya! (the knife talking)
LCC D/A= GRIN!
smile.gif

Boker= Get a new ad campaign!
MOD=How much? Great quality.
Becker K&T=Value and quality
Cold Steel=Great knives, pity about the hype. (8a better than ATS-34 et al
rolleyes.gif
) Fantastic edge out of box!
Opinel=Give me two at that price!
Ontario=rough and ready but good
Gerber=Man, what happened?
Fox= Eeew

Oh is Wales a third world place? Probably... Still at least we know the USA is NOT Russia on the map... Typical, you chose the biggest thing on the map
wink.gif
Just kidding! But before you insult us, watch out, Walt is a Welshman and if he see's this... Don't cross him
biggrin.gif


Oh, BTW, do you think I can't tell the differece between a knock off and a real BM? Hell, maybe you got a point there, think about it!

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
Nice comeback, General!

Here are some more:
Al Mar - Why so few models now?
SOG - No Collaborations?
Buck - K-Mart
Case - Old School
Grohmann - Oh Canada!
Aitor - ¡Arriba España!
Böker - Is X-15 really rust proof?
United Cutlery - Dull!




[This message has been edited by el cid (edited 04-18-2001).]
 
Just thought I would quickly mention that 'teacher' is another signed up Benchmade nut...(I have NO problem with anyone being a BM nut or any other make for that matter, I am a Sebi nut a Spyderco nut a Ka Bar nut a MOD nut a Microhlic etc etc etc, but if I am to be accused of bias then we all need to see who has nade attacks against me and that they are both big time players on the BM Forum.) in fact both he and e_utopia are what I would describe as so far into BM knives that they cannot accept the slightest...ahem *
wink.gif
* chance that BM are in fact capable of producing a lemon as much as the next company. Hell I LOVE Spyderco and I think for the money they make the best knives in the world. But if someone says they have a problem with a Spyderco, well they have a problem with a Spyderco! Far be it for me to make a personal attack just cos I love a Spydie!!! In fact I would not care one jot if that person told everyone who asked about model xyz knife that his had a problem. Simple fact is this, if one person claims to have problems and no one else; its a one off. When quite a few (RIGHT HERE) harp on about QC issues with ANY make(and BM do seem to get more than a few complaints) etc well you gotta listen and not stick your head in the sand. The more I look and ask, the more people tell me that they have problems!

I went into Uni today to drop off some work, well I visited the local knife/gun shop on the way to the station and mentioned some of what is happening here. In short he said it was something of a hit and miss with Benchmade. This chap used to make knives a number of years ago, so he knows his ****. At the moment his current range include Ka Bar, Spyderco,Meyerco,Bocker,Buck,CRK&T,Gerber, Puma and a number of POS knock off blades.

His honest to god answer was that BM made very nice blades, but as he inspects all the knives he gets in by hand (it is a VERY small shop) he has rejected as many BM knives as any other 'brand' name. He said CRK&T Were the best, with Spyderco behind.

Oh and funny this, he has had LESS than TEN BM products in his shop. I know for a FACT he has sold well over a hundred CRK&T and Spyderco blades, hell I have bought at least ten from him myself over the last 4 years or so. This tells me the reject rate is quite high to say the least as a number of actual blades (percentage wise if you have two xyz poorly made and you sell 50 that are ok that is a 4% reject rate, if you reject 2 qwe blades out of 10, that is a 20% reject rate). He in fact is considering dropping the make and only doing them to order. Now I said to him it might have been an unlucky batch, **** happens and all that. Well he told me the length that CRK&T go to keep the quality tip top. I was STUNNED how much effort they put into their knives. I might be a bit critical of 6m as a steel, but I have NEVER EVER seen a dud or even slightly out CRK&T. How much do they cost? It is this value and quality that makes me buy em, even if I don't care for the steel!

Now I am not going back to have another pop at BM but I like the fact that another BM nut brings this back up again and starts off with a pop at Wales
rolleyes.gif
*YAWN*

Question is, when do the personal attacks start and stop?

Well, lets just say that I am finding more and more people are e-mailing me with problems they have had with BM knives, but they don't want to add fuel to the fire. Well I made the mistake once of showing a couple of private e-mails to back my side of an argument, so I won't do that again.

Lets AGREE to DISAGREE on this issue and get back to the origional post?

Is that ok?

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
General,
I did not 'really' mean to insult you or any country. Therefore the 'third world' question was probably in poor taste, sorry.

But I do find it very hard to believe that you have to 'look through' several hundred Benchmades to find a 'perfect' one. That is just beyond me.
Yes, I am on the BM forum and glad I am. Do I think BM makes the only good knife in the world, of course not........ I appreciate all good knives and try to appreciate them for what they are.
Your ranting and raving about BM is comical to me. I guess if I had had all the problems you 'say' you have had I might rave too. But that is not the case ,All of mine have been perfect.
And yes, I have seen a couple of BM lemons; just like I have seen lemons from other brands. But I don't get on here and be-little and run those knives and companys down because they made a 'bad one'. They all make a 'bad one' ever now and then.
My 'problem' w/ you is that because you have an 'axe to grind' w/ BM you seem to feel like it is your duty to the world at large to run them down. This is downright funny to me. All of my BM's are good, sorry yours ain't. All my others are good too, hope yours are.
Sincerely,


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teacher
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Glad we have an understanding.

BTW, it is about 400 total not 700. And of that 400 only about 300 in the last four years or so. Put it into perspective, I looked at over 40 BM knives in 2 shops a couple of months ago while looking for my 750 (or a 730). I got a good one in the end.

I make the habit to look closely at all the knives I buy now.

All the best.

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
What teacher said, Wayne. I would not 'attack' you for posting that you managed to find a lemon. When you claim that nearly all Benchmades are faulty, and only a few out of hundreds are of acceptable quality, you are not behaving reasonably. The shipping alone on all those returned knives would have put the company out of business, long ago.

Then to say how poor you were treated by the company, when they actually went very far out of their way to fix your knife, even though they didn't have to, and probably shouldn't have (at least, that way, when you went to claim that they have horrible service, they would not have spent money making your knife right, first). That's just wrong.

And to then claim that you were banned from posting, even though you have posted after that time, is just a blatant lie, if I've ever heard one....

You seem to have it backwards, here. I don't defend Benchmade from childish attacks like yours because I am somehow addicted to the company. I defend Benchmade because they clearly deserve to be defended, given that your attacks are completely based on lies and your own twisted imagination. I am 'addicted' to Benchmade because they are high-quality knives, and more importantly, the customer service (as I have said before) is better than that of any other company, knife or otherwise, that I've dealt with in the past.

Just give it up, Wayne. You don't have a leg to stand on.

--JB

[edited for spelling]

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-19-2001).]
 
I said SEVERAL hundred, NOT 700.

I am glad we have an understanding also.

I have always made it a habit to inspect each knife I buy closely, no matter what brand.......

Most of the BM's I've bought have been w/in the past four years. I have more than a few. Did not have to 'search' for a perfect one.

Going to get some more tommorow. The guy will have a hundred or more BM's in stock. He sells them 'hand over fist'. Can't get e'm fast enough. He just got in a new order.

I'm gonna look at e'm all, every last one; just to see if your 'theory' has any validity to it. If it does I'll tell you straight up. If your theory washes out, I'll tell you that straight up also.

I'm going to check the other brands too. We will see if any of them have problems also. I WILL NOT bash them on here if they do though.

TOP of the day to you, (I would put a smile
here but don't know how)



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teacher
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Well just to prove memory is falable THIS IS WHAT GOT ME BANNED.

http://192.41.25.213/ultbb/Forum1/HTML/001270.html

I was banned for the reason I gave, just at a later point than I remembered. If you look at my post history you will see the post that pointed the dude to the problems I had had was the only thing that aught to have caused the reaction or the fact that BM were a bit put out that they claimed that they were not aware of the problems with the AFCK range... Hmm. It was good of them to fix the knife, but it aught not to have been wrong in the first place, not on a knife at this price. That a firm leg I feel.


"Then to say how poor you were treated by the company, when they actually went very far out of their way to fix your knife, even though they didn't have to, and probably shouldn't have (at least, that way, when you went to claim that they have horrible service, they would not have spent money making your knife right, first). That's just wrong."

No, whats wrong is that the knife was like it was in the first place. It was made better by BM service, but it cost me money as well to get the knife..fixed
frown.gif
They sent me a torx tool kit as an apology and that is rubbish as well, the heads just bend on the t6/7. Nice of them to send it, but COME ON!

I will admit the fact that BM did not and would not tell me why I was banned pissed me right off! It may seem like a crusade, but all I wanted was a simple reason. I was willing to put up with all the other stuff if I felt I was being treated as a customer, I felt (and still do) that BM were MEGA pissed that after doing what I would expect ANY company to do, that I still mentioned what happened to me. The nerve of this character eh? So unreasonable! He returned the knife at his own cost and after we made the knife better, he is still talking about it! BAN HIS ASS!

"And to then claim that you were banned from posting, even though you have posted after that time, is just a blatant lie, if I've ever heard one...."

No, honest mistake, which I would accept that BM made after the first 3-4 e-mails about this were ignored. But 7? Man!

My attacks might seem a little childish, heck I will accept that much, but when you are ignored I DON'T GO AWAY. I ask questions and make a point of telling anyone who I can what happened to me. Call me ungrateful but I think I was unfairly treated AFTER the event and this caused me to feel LESS tolerent towards the QC issues that I ACCEPTED as a GIVEN with BM.

A question for YOU.

Quite a few have said THEY have had problems with BM knives and QC is OFTEN brought up as a gripe. You are honestly saying you think we are all amiking this up or have an agenda behind everything that is said? I have a bias here, but everyone else with problems as well? Man I hope not!

"given that your attacks are completely based on lies and your own twisted imagination"

I was slightly wrong with a date, nothing more, everything else has been 100% spot on.

I hope you can accept I made a mistake, but the overall content is still correct from my end. If you think I am a liar well you are wrong. You seem to be constantly trying to raise the temp in this post, please have a little respect and calm down. This has NOTHING to do with you. I am answering out of respect for a fellow Formite. Calling a Formite a liar is a bit...strong.




------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
Wayne, that's not the link you posted in the previous thread. Can't keep your story straight, huh?

I've posted far worse complaints than you, yet somehow I haven't been banned. Guess thay're just out to get you, huh?
rolleyes.gif


Of course, you're claiming that these are inherent problems with all AFCK's, not just an isolated incident with yours. Again, as I have said before, there is every appearance that your knife was used.

What's wrong is that you complain, even though they didn't have to fix the knife, at all. But they did so, anyway. You violated the warranty. They could have just said 'sorry, we are under no obligation to fix that', or they could have charged you. They did neither.

(quick hint: if you bent the torx drivers, you were abusing the - you were trying to tighten the screws too tight - T6 and T7 are not high-torque screws)

Here's a question for you: have you ever, even once, called Benchmade to ask why you were banned? If not, why don't you? 1(800)800-7427 - ask for Travis.

Remember again that they did not do what any company would do. Most other companies would have told you 'too bad, you voided the warranty - we don't have to fix your knife.'

I have yet to see more than a handful of verified QC complaints.

You were not 'slightly wrong with a date' - you said 'this is the post that got me banned', even though you have posted later than that, so you clearly were not banned. You have now changed your mind and decided that it was a different, more recent post, that got you banned.

I'm not the one who 'raised the temp' - I was perfectly happy to let things end with the archiving of the previous thread. You are the one who brought this subject back into this new thread, even though you had stated that you would not post on this, again. I guess that was a lie, wasn't it?

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Actually no, I did not strictly bring this up again. I was willing to let this drop as well. Thank teacher for continuing the issue in a NEW THREAD. As this is a NEW THREAD I can post about the issue. My point about not continuing with the OLD THREAD was a valid one. So no I have not lied. I did say I would not continue this "here and now". And here we are...
frown.gif
Differnt time/place and thread. Somantics are a bitch.

As to changing my story, well yes thats what happens when you **** up and make a mistake. You correct that mistake and own up to it. I have a slighty dodgy memory of the finite details but I am not a liar. If you ask some of the formites who I have had dealings with on a trust basis, you will find I keep my word and do not lie. Tell you what give Nemo a bell and ask him why he thought he could trust me with his rare early model Sebenza, and how he got it back. Oh and I am loaning his Gunting at the moment as well... Somehow I don't think a liar would be trusted with stuff like this, do you?

You seem to be going over the 'service' aspect of the thread. Ok it was unfair of me to be slightly unclear on this issue. Let me make it clear just for you.

BM fixed the knife. The knife was better, but not fantastic. The inherent flaws in a AFCK are these
1. Scale flex.
2. Blade moving off centre.
3. Blade scraping liner as a result.
4. Blade play

Now I challenge you to disagree that a significant number of people have NOT said this! It is generaly agreed that those are 'standard' features of the whole AFCK range.

Ok so I am guessing why I was banned, as they refuse to reply, how can I know for sure? Phone them, oh yes I live on the opposite side of the world. WORK IT OUT. I have an unfortunate habbit of sleeping... Oh and I don't fancy paying silly money per second to be told "what? Who the **** are you and what the **** are you talking about? Just go away" That seems to be the message by not replying to e-mails. BTW what the hell makes you think that a refusal to reply to e-mails becomes a nice 'oh yes, allow us to explain what happened... as you phoned us this time.' GET REAL.

Oh and the idea that my AFCK was used, what a load of bull. It was NOT used it was BRAND SPANKING NEW and YES it did come with all the problems and vertical play to boot. Do you honestly think I cannot tell the difference between a new and used knife?

Let me tell you something, for over ten years I was a scale model and figure painter and maker. I used a full scale mag rig and very fine Sable brushes. I have won awards for my work. I also build computers in my spare time, I also service mountain bikes in the summer (changing brake systems etc). I know my mechanical systems and have very highly developed fine motor skills and a keen eye for visual and tactile detail. If my memory was a bit **** it is because I am putting in 18 hour days at the moment at work and on a full time BA Degree. So can't I tell the difference between a used and new knife? Work it out
rolleyes.gif


Oh as to bending the... abusing the torx heads, well guess what? They were used to LOOSEN the Mini AFCK I had so I could strip it to clean and lube it
rolleyes.gif
I watched as the torx head turned around and the thing looked like a corkscrew... I used a proper tool for the job and it came loose just fine. Oh and I am not the only person to complain of this, do a search please
rolleyes.gif
!

"I have yet to see more than a handful of verified QC complaints."

Who did the verification? Let me quess? Benchmade? Hmmm pay the piper, call the tune.

In my book if a person says he has a problem, he does. Do you honestly think people make claims about QC just for the fun of it? I doubt that very much.

Now I am starting to get very tired with this round and round we go argument. I see no one has brought this up on the BM Forum and I don't really know why I am bothering to talk to you about this, the grinder is doing something else and you are not even the monkey!(that is a pun on an old saying and not a slur against you) What possible point is there in continuing this?

I have said my peace and I think you have as well. Unless you want to continue with this?

I leave it up to you know to decide if you are happy to drop this before it starts to get very personal and no longer about the issue. I would regret a slanging match. It is not my style. Besides if BM are unwilling to answer my e-mails, I will just assume they banned me for the reason I gave. I will no longer bare a grudge against BM (can't be bothered, and this has let me get it off my chest), but if someone asks about a BM I have owned/seen I will tell them what I have seen and experienced first hand. Free country and all that. However this is not a topic I intend to raise myself again.

Sorry about the spelling, I am way tired.

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!

[This message has been edited by The General (edited 04-19-2001).]
 
Wayne aka The General,
Thank you for giving me the recognition I well deserve for reviving this archived post. It is most entertaining to me, I promise. I have developed a mental image of you in hot pursuit of a 'perfect' Benchmade. You holding the lucky winner high above your head with the 'bad ones' strewn all about you in an ever growing heap. (Hmmm, I have a friend whom has great artistic abilities...)
I have reached the point now that it cracks me up just thinking about it......

And to set the record straight I like most all knives and try to appreciate each for what it is. To say that I am just "another signed up Benchmade nut" is not entirely accurate. I do like and appreciate BM knives. Do understand though Wayne, that first and foremost; I am just a NUT..... and not a signed up one<><><><><><><><><>

I was going to ask you if you actually even owned any Benchmades but then I saw your post on the Chris Reeve forum.You sounded truthful w/ no raving.......not bad..........

After all I have read about CR Sebenzas I'm going to try one. Just gotta decide on large or small blade length. And scrape up some coins.......

Till next time,

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teacher
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Wayne, using semantics to lie is just as much a lie as anything else. At least among adults. Children tend to think such things are acceptable.

Discovering that you were wrong and saying 'sorry, I made a mistake' is one thing. Simply changing your story is quite another. I've seen you lie. Why would I need to ask other forumites if you've lied to them, as well? Unless I cared whether I was 'special' with regards to your lying, which I don't.

Wayne, any knife will flex. Any knife with Titanium liners will flex more easily than one with steel. That's a tradeoff you make for a lighter-weight knife. As for the other three, I have never seen an AFCK with any of them, so it can't exactly be inherent to the series, since that would mean that all would have it.

Have you tried other email systems? You clearly had problems getting in touch with them, the first time. Your system may not be compatible. Or they may just not be willing to reply to 'hate mail', assuming your emails to them have been anything like your posts, here. As for calling vs. emailing, well, if you haven't figured out that phone calls are a better way to get in touch with people than email, well, you have some more growing-up to do....

The amount of wear you describe on your knife could not be the result of opening and closing a few times during assembly. It would have to have been used significantly to cause that much wear.

Changing brake systems on mountain bikes does not make you a knife-useage expert. Neither does assembling computers, or painting models. They are unrelated. A good machinist might have a fighting chance.

Wayne: Benchmade Loc-Tites their knives. It certainly was abuse to use the torx drivers in that way. Their drivers are softer than some, but for the price are an incredible deal. You seem to keep forgetting that not only did they fix an out-of-warranty knife for you, they actually sent you a gift back with it. I mean, if that's not customer service, I don't know what is.

Verified as in, the person can provide real detail as to what the problem is and/or pictures showing the problem. I don't doubt that people have problems with knives. I just doubt that so many are the result of QC, and not abuse by the owner.

What is there to bring up on Benchmade's forum? That some kid in the UK is unhappy with the astoundingly great service he recieved? That he seems to think that nearly all Benchmades are of completely unacceptable quality - a statement so ridiculous that it just boggles the mind? That he is unhappy about getting banned from the forum, even though he refuses to take any action to find out why, beyond sending emails which are likely insulting and childish, given his posts here?

I would be happy to drop this, if you would answer numerous questions which you have ignored.

Let me ask you this: what do you want posted over on Benchmade's forum? I am willing to go along and post something for you, within reason. Or, for that matter, I think I'm going to call Travis, myself, and find out why you were banned, if you have no objections?

--JB

P.S., even if you insist of deluding yourself by thinking there's some sort of 'Benchmade Forum Conspiracy', it is unfair to paint teacher with the same brush. He's relatively new, there. The whole 'conspiracy' image is faulty, though, since I have been a strong opponent of BT2, yet never seem to have been banned for saying so....

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
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