Cooling off period for customers

H

HallHandmade

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Jun 5, 2012
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Hi All,

I'm a new knifemaker, and decided in the last few days that I've gotten comfortable enough with my quality to let knives outside my friends and family. I'm going to be buying a knifemaker membership here later today possibly, so kinda excited about that.

I sold my first kitchen knife (and first "public" sale), a heavy slicer, to a younger chef at a country club in LA. He is motivated, but I'm not sure he knows his own technique yet. Bottom line, he decided that he would like a much larger slicer than the one I sold him, and a smaller detail chef's knife.

I offered to buy the knife back for what he paid, even though it is now used and has a slight patina in places. I don't think I could comfortably refuse a refund anyways, but to be honest, I don't have enough experience to have a feel for this. I know that "do what feels right" is a good basic approach, but do any of you all allow anything like a cooling off period?

How are returns handled in the customs/one-off scene?

Lastly, is there a taboo against selling the returned knife as long as I am upfront about its history? Should I just hang on to it as a free bonus knife for a future special customer? I don't know if I feel right giving a used knife to someone I care about as a gift, at least on birthday/Christmas.

Thanks in advance for your time.
 
I think if you make him a custom made knife that he ordered and there is nothing wrong with it then there should be no refunds because he does not like it any more. he used it and now he thinks he needs a bigger one?? that is his fault not yours.
 
In general, custom/special orders are final sales. That or a 30 - 50% restocking fee usually applies.
 
unless it is a popular style I would not take it back because now it is used and I think you would have to lower your price and take a loss. now why should you lose money because he now wants to try something else??
 
richard thurman said:
unless it is a popular style I would not take it back because now it is used and I think you would have to lower your price and take a loss. now why should you lose money because he now wants to try something else??
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This is the knife, 7.75" blade, 1084 and stabilized curly redwood:

bJrwBBd.jpg


I don't know if I would call it popular, but I think it is sellable. I originally intended it as a camp slicer, something you could use for general food prep, but strong enough to handle moderate camp tasks without edge damage. It would also work equally well (IMO) as a heavy duty slicer in a kitchen, something that could hit bone on a busy line and not blink.



The customer expressed interest in a large slicer (~11"), and a smaller chef's knife (~8"). This knife is neither, but he happened to see it and it caught his eye. I think looking back, that he liked it for its look, but it probably wasn't the right knife for him. When he bought it, I let him know that it wasn't really either knife he asked for, but it was a solid slicer that could stand in for chef's tasks in a pinch. There are a lot of other potential sales in his kitchen, and I didn't want him to be stuck with a knife that he wasn't happy with. He intended to purchase the knives as working knives, so I was hoping to get something as close to perfect for him as I could.
 
Cancel this sale and make the two others he will keep. In a case like this, taking it back may be opening up business opportunities with other chefs as well.

You are a knifemaker. You can restore the finish as new. It may very well be a perfect gift if not a re-sale at a slight discount.
 
While it looks like a very nice and well made knife, it's not really what I'd think of if asked to make a chef's knife or a "kitchen slicer".

Seems closer to a boning knife or even a medium carving knife.

If it happens to be what he asked for, then so be it, and it should no longer be your problem, IMO.
That said, if you take it back, it should be fairly easy to clean up and re-sell, and then you can sell him the two other knives after finding out exactly what he does want. 3 knives for the price of one, right?

Just make sure the other two don't turn into re-sells.
 
knife to a gunfight said:
While it looks like a very nice and well made knife, it's not really what I'd think of if asked to make a chef's knife or a "kitchen slicer".

Seems closer to a boning knife or even a medium carving knife.

If it happens to be what he asked for, then so be it, and it should no longer be your problem, IMO.
That said, if you take it back, it should be fairly easy to clean up and re-sell, and then you can sell him the two other knives after finding out exactly what he does want. 3 knives for the price of one, right?

Just make sure the other two don't turn into re-sells.
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I believe I was probably mistaken in the name I used, I think carving knife is probably the proper term. The blade is loosely patterned after my favorite prime rib/turkey carving (duh) knife, an older one that I got from grandma when she passed.

He wanted a really tough knife for slicing up prime rib, chopping up chickens, and general abuse. I think the only reason he didn't keep this as knife #2 was that he wanted something fairly long, so he could attempt to get single pass slices on big roasts and such.

gmoetrch911 said:
what was the price .. just wondering
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I charged $140, but I've since been smacked in the back of the head by two different people who know knives fairly well, I think I probably should have been more in the $160-180 range, if anything, because that is a pretty prime piece of redwood. Normally I would be afraid to discuss price (don't want to break forum rules), but I think it is Ok as the knife is not currently for sale, at least until I get it back and refurb it, and maybe not then depending on what I decide to do with it.

To be honest I'm so new I don't even really know what I should be charging.

I may just try to get back what I refunded him, if I do decide to sell it once I'm done cleaning it up.
 
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Marko3 said:
When you say a cooling off period was your customer upset ?
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No, he was actually very polite about wanting to return it for something else.

I meant like you sometimes hear referred to on car loans, I think certain states and/or dealers allow a "cooling off period" if the customer has second thoughts on the car they just purchased, basically it's a no questions asked return if you change your mind for any reason. I think it can run anywhere from a few days to a few weeks.

Esav Benyamin said:
Cancel this sale and make the two others he will keep. In a case like this, taking it back may be opening up business opportunities with other chefs as well.

You are a knifemaker. You can restore the finish as new. It may very well be a perfect gift if not a re-sale at a slight discount.
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I felt the same way, I think that the good will factor may override everything here. I really would like to get a bit of an "in" with some people in the service industry, especially higher end kitchens where you would be more likely to find a custom (most line cooks in chain resturants won't touch anything over $20-30 because of the theft factor, in my limited experience in my area).
 
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I think in this case with another sale in the mix no problem. But don't be to nice to people. They tend to walk all over you especially when your cutting your teeth with your first knife sales. I don't mean it in a bad way just make sure exactly what he wants and do it. Maybe try talking him into some stainless and make him a nice and thin slicer.
 
Marko3 said:
I think in this case with another sale in the mix no problem. But don't be to nice to people. They tend to walk all over you especially when your cutting your teeth with your first knife sales. I don't mean it in a bad way just make sure exactly what he wants and do it. Maybe try talking him into some stainless and make him a nice and thin slicer.
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I think I'm going to buy some thin S35VN, I recently read (cruising through old threads) that California has regulations on carbon steel knives in commercial kitchens. I don't know the exact details of the regulations or how well they're enforced, but I'd hate for a customer to have a knife that he loves and can't use, and I'm not interested in breaking rules if I don't need to.

I did mention it to him, but he didn't seem terribly worried about it (I think trying to tell a chef what kind of knife he can use is a bit of a touchy subject). He said he could go either way stainless/carbon. I really don't have a feel for the right/wrong on this, so I'll just err to the side of caution.
 
a very long time ago when I was selling at the flemarket I had a set of rules. exchange only no cash refunds and if you don't like it don't come back. I had more customers than the big boys. I was not selling crap. I was selling mostly all name brands switchblades and stag handle mulea daggers in which I still have a bunch of them still. if you have the right stuff they will come to buy. If your hand made knifes are made really good then the word will get passed around.
 
You are in the beginning of the learning process as a knifemaker and as a businessman. We seen authentically talented knifemakers crash and burn because they didn't realize that a business is more than just getting orders to fill.

Learn your craft, and learn your customers. Learn to stretch out the order process as long as needed to find what they like and teach them what works best. Then factor in what you need to charge to make it support the knifemaking process.
 
Nice im in the same boat bein new and all and just decided to start letting some knives go outside if my circle and having some trouble with pricing.. i figure since im a beginner if i can get back at least the cost of making them im doin alright
 
Welcome aboard!

Don't forget that eventually the cost of making them has to include materials, tools, electricity, and your time. A businessman's time includes shop time and administration. Contact with customers, record-keeping and taxes.

Start adding those in when you know your knives are good. :)
 
Taking the knife back can be seen as an investment.
A good chance that the other chefs will order as well.
Plus you can have a condition like: Use the new knives but give me honest feedback. How can I improve.
That will be good info as well.

And the knife you take back, use it in your own kitchen?
 
I would not give him his money back because you are saying that your time is worthless. who is going to help you pay for your time?? the stuff that you had to buy to make the knife?? Can you afford to do this again and again?? I wish you luck.
 
I have had this situation before. I would just take the knife back and credit the amount paid toward the knife/knives they re-ordered. If the knife cleans up OK, just re-buff the handle, sharpen it, and re-sell this one.

I would suggest you take a lot of looks at the top quality chefs knives in The Exchange and other places and see what chefs call a Chefs blade. Your knife is pretty, but it is a very basic utility slicer. It would get little use in a commercial kitchen. The handle is pretty, but will soon be ruined in a commercial kitchen, too. Use a handle material that takes wear , abuse, and lots of washing. Micarta, rosewood, ebony, etc. all will hold up to full time use. I sell five Micarta handled knives to real chefs for every one fancy handled blade.

There is nothing wrong with a 1084 knife and a pretty handle, but for what I see in your photo, it is worth about what you got. Using better steel, and tougher handles may increase the price.
 
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