Cop Question

A

ALAMEDA

Joined
Nov 26, 2005
Messages
79
For all you knife people!

I and maybe 99% of all Law Enforcement people are not in the least knowledgeable about knives! No big news!

Cops have so many questions about knives they would love to have an answer to....

Most cops would only consider the use of a knife as defense....as the very last use!

Anyway.....

As a cop, I (we) want to carry a knife that only shows the clip exposed!

But from my inexperienced knowledge of knife carry I may be missing something very important about carrying a knife that shows more of the knife than the clip.......

What is it?

I mean most folders show (tell) the viewer that you've got a knife in there!

Please....the pros and the cons.

Dan
 
I think that when a folder is designed, the clip placement is decided by how comfortably it will carry and how comfortable it will handle. I don't believe that there are any real benefits to having a low riding knife. However if you are as keen on tight pants as I am, having a bit of handle exposed makes it quite a bit easier to get the tool out. As for the issue about advertising, I find that most people don't notice one way or another. People just don't look for a knife on you. It's not in their thinking. They could look right at the clip and if they don't carry, it won't even occur to them that there could be a knife attached to it.
But if want a low cary folder, get a SOG Flash with their speed assist.
 
I think most people will think its a cell phone or beeper or some electronic device. I just dont think a knife would register that fast. Say Dan...texas knife lenght laws are 5.5''. I carry a 3.5'' mini skirmish and it even looks big to me...would you question a knife that big???
 
generally, most people have no clue. I carry a knife with the clip exposed. I also carry a handgun that is absolutely concealed and I carry it in such a way that I am the only one who knows it's there but can clear leather quickly if needed.

I never ever think of my knife as a defensive weapon but rather a utility piece. I have cut far more pant's legs from bike spokes, seat belts, rope, crap and other crap during a duty shift than needing a knife for defense. On duty I carried a back-up gun for when things went very South. But that's me, I am a knife knut and know knife fights are messy!!

Most folks think it's a cell phone, but if seeing that knife clip is a deterrent, great

If not, great..............
 
If you want to carry the knife really unobtrusively, slip it inside your waistband, with the clip over the waistband but under your belt.
 
paulwesley said:
I think most people will think its a cell phone or beeper or some electronic device. I just dont think a knife would register that fast. Say Dan...texas knife lenght laws are 5.5''. I carry a 3.5'' mini skirmish and it even looks big to me...would you question a knife that big???
Click to expand...
I don't know why you're asking someone from a different state with different laws.:rolleyes:

Anyway, as knifeclerk said, a lot of where the clip is placed depends on the design of the whole knife. Personally, I prefer a knife that sticks out a bit (but not too much), since it's easier to grab. I find that the nicer the knife is, the deeper I'd prefer to carry it (like a formal dress knife).

Keep in mind that the issues of concealment vary from state to state. Some places require that you display certian knives openly and ban concealment. Some (like NYC) require you to conceal them and completely ban open carry. Very strange, but that's law for ya.

Most cops would only consider the use of a knife as defense....as the very last use!
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to exactly what you mean by that. Are you speaking as a cop carrying a knife (and would only use one in defense), or are you speaking as a cop looking at other people carrying knives?

If it's the former, I'd say that's a very broad and possibly wrong generalization. A knife carried as a tool is simply that: a tool. If I were a cop, I'd have one on my person at all times. If I were in charge of other cops, I'd make them all carry knives too. You simply never know when you'll need one, and if you need one, there's a good chance that you really, really need one. Consider it like your flashlight or gun. Most cops never have to use, or even draw their guns, but they have them in case the worst happens.

If you mean the latter, I hope you're not speaking for yourself, because that's the sort of ignorant view a lot of us work very hard to correct. I use a knife (several, actually) every day at work and at home. I've never used one as a weapon. I do carry one particular knife as a self-defence weapon. I hope I never have to use it. Everything I carry is done so legally.



I don't think it really matters how much of a knife is visible to whomever might see it, so long as the person carrying it is within the laws. Is a visible knife clip more offensive to the sensitive eyes than, say, a garrish tatoo? A risque T-shirt? Loud music coming from a car? My point is, you shouldn't view something as a weapon unless it's obviously so. And even if it is, if it's legal, who cares?
 
i think that the only pro to having a high-ride knife, would be if the knife is in a tip-down configuration. it would make the draw faster.

i personally like a low-ride knife. unless im in the situation i stated above, there is no reason for my knife to be peeking out of my pocket.
i like to swap out 'fold-over' clips on a lot of my knives, and mount them fairly high on the knife so i can accomplish the low-ride.

as for others identifying the clip as a knife, most people have no idea.

...sort of gives me an idea though. when i was in jr. high everybody cliped thier pens and pencils on the inside of thier pants pockets.
mabye we should try to fab up some clips that look like pen clips.
dont know why i never put 2+2 together.
 
Alameda,

When attempting to get a knife out in a hurry, or under stress, or both, the more material of the handle that you can palm, the better. The less you have to dig in a pocket, the better, too.

Like most people here, I carry a knife everyday ( abbriviated EDC-- every day carry) and everywhere. I carry folders with some handle material showing.

I very rarely get it mentioned to me. Good active street cops are normally the most observant people around --they're hunting- and I am always taking blades off of suspects as other officers are getting ready to put them into cars or preparing to handcuff them. If cops miss the knives, you know the sheeple will.

Normally the only people who notice my knives are also knife people. :) A subduded clip/handle color helps.

I'm glad to see another cop becoming a knife person. We knife people need more cops on our side. Too many cops don't understand knives and there uses and they therefore either fear knives or disregard them too much. They certainly don't buy decent knives or maintain their pakistani POS's very well.

I hate to see a guy carrying a $1100 Kimber and a $3 knife. I mean, which are you going to use more?

There is also a host of wisdom here about tactical training, other tools, and even knife laws. Go find some of the posts about Peter Atwood's Prybaby's--you'll be wanting one for patrol.

Something that you might want to consider the knife as perfect for in a defensive martial role is to stop disarms of your exposed service pistol. They grab the gun in the holster, you clamp down with your strong hand, draw your weak side folding knife with your weak hand, deploy, and take out their grabby arm ( at the least).

I have trained and trained through this deadly force scenario with various weapons and the knife's pre-emminence in this role means to me that the cop who doesn't carry at least one decent folder is really limiting their effective defense against a very common form of deadly assault.

Now, we are all waiting for your "Which knife should I buy first?" post!

Hunt well,
Jeff
 
When I was a little boy, I wanted to be a cop. I thought cops carried only a club and a gun. I got that image from the police in my neighborhood. Now cops carry so much gear that they look like they have a Batman Utility Belt. I saw one cop carrying a cheap Chinese clip-it in his pocket and another carried a Spyderco Police model in a matching sheath on his "Utility Belt". I have never seen a cop carry a fixed blade on his belt in the city. It's funny how some manufacturers market a fixed blade (such as the Emerson Police Utility Knife) towards our law enforcement. Maybe the fixed blades are more for S.W.A.T. teams or the like. If I was a cop, I think I would carry a small folder that would be strong enough to cut banding and clothing material. Material that might need to be cut in an emergency. Maybe a folder like the Spyderco Rescue.
 
Thanks, Guys! Pretty much covers it!

Planterz:

I'm curious as to exactly what you mean by that. Are you speaking as a cop carrying a knife (and would only use one in defense), or are you speaking as a cop looking at other people carrying knives?
Click to expand...

I did leave my question a bit open to speculation , but let me answer it this way:

People who put themselves in a position where they need to be arrested for whatever reason....and they are carrying a knife on them I (and all other cops) are thinking that they are not looking around for a piece of rope to cut or a some kindling to slice up.

If I see someone on the street who is carrying a knife partially (no matter how slightly) in view: I WILL notice it.....in a heartbeat. But I will not think that they are going to use it in any criminal way.

Knife people (as I can see at this forum) are not about weapons.....per se.

If I see and know that someone is carrying a concealed firearm, I generally (cop's sense) will know if that person has the right to carry that weapon.

As far as myself carrying a knife on the job, I feel that the use of that knife will more than likely be used as a "backup". Yes indeed, I will need to cut people from a seatbelt from time to time, but I cannot see law enforcement people using carry knives in the same way as sportsmen.

And I do appreciate (now) the need to maybe have a bit of handle to grab real quick....as opposed to deep carry.

Great responses!

Dan.

P.S.

I am not familiar with the size of a blade from state to state, as to which is legal. I do know that if you do "need to be arrested" you had better not be carrying a dull 1/2" blade. And if you are, you won't be able to find even the deepest place to carry it. Promise.
 
Hey Guys....

My experience with cops,, especially local yocal cops is that they know Very little about knives period,, and I don't want to generalize all cops into this,, but most of the ones I've met around here view most knives as weapons and not tools..If they carry a knife at all it's usually a POS or a cheap-O-delux multitool.

I was stopped once by a plain clothes cop coming out of a store,,who was also in the store, but waited for me outside...He asked what it was I had in my pocket. I carefully unclipped a sheathed Tops Wolf pup and handed it to him...

He looked at the knife, made a nice comment, and apologized..
He thought it was the butt end of a snub nosed revolver.. I handed him a card and we parted ways on good terms...

Another cop in the same store (local corner store) I showed him the same knife and he made a comment something to the effect as "Nice little weapon"
Well first off it's a tool,, not a weapon,, and it's a utility/skinner knife,,not a dagger..

It's funny he's a hunter as well, and the first purpose of the knife that came to his mind is Weapon... I guess that comes with the job, and is what keeps him alive on patrol...

When I worked in the Crime Prevention Unit of a local PD, I use to get to go to their firearm qualifications.. I was shocked beyond belief..

A good percentage of these guys couldn't hit a barn door, and were poor shots at best.Most only fired their sidearms once a year during the firearms Quals. A couple of them fumbled with their safetys. All of the ones I watched took braced shots from the trunks of their sqauds....

One cop asked me "What kind of gun is that ? " I had...I looked at her and didn't know what to say I was totally in shock..

It was an Rem 870 with an extended mag.. The same shotgun she had in her trunk...

Now thats F-ing Scary!!!!!

Anyway,,straying a little off topic here...

I guess in general what I'm trying to say is that alot of cops I run into,,espcially young cops..It's just a job to them. They know very little about anything outside their realm and are somewhat tactical ignorant and light years behind in the times..I'm sure they are good cops,, and are always professional,, but it really makes you wonder about them...Most probably haven't fired a firearm until police training.

On the other hand,, there are coppers I know that are right up on their stuff, know what the heck they are talking about when it comes to tactical minded things, and know how to clear a malfunction in their sidearm.

ttyle

Eric...
 
Eric;

I agree. I am one of the cops you refer to that knows near to zero about knives.

I am more of your last sentence (above) kinda cop. I know what I don't know. And I learn by asking those that do know.......guys like you.

That's why I'm here.

Dan
 
Hey Dan...

Well we Welcome you with open unarmed arms..:)

As far as me knowing about knives..Well I wouldn't go that far..:)

Sheaths.. Now we're talking...:)

Thanks and Welcome to BF.com

ttyle

Eric....
 
As an x (23year) now retired police officer, I would carry an Emerson cqc7 with wave in your strong hand front pants pocket. The clip will blend in the the dark uniform pants and you have instant access to a powerful blade.
 
Wesley...

If your gun hand is pre-occupied with your sidearm for one reason or another(i.e. defending it) how is your weak hand going to reach your blade ?

Strong arm - sidearm
Weak arm - backup blade

BTW,, not telling you how to do it,, just which makes more sense to me..

ttyle

Eric...
 
I'm a communications officer for a University Police Department and most of the officers here are knife savvy. Most of them carry Spydercos or Assisted BMs (the CRKT M-16 series has a few devotees as well), and most of them carry multitools as well. We Interact with surrounding agencies alot and it is not unusual for Officers to start a "show off your knife" line of conversation (maybe it's a South Georgia thing :D ).
 
Am I the only one who think's ALAMEDA is actually a mall security guard?:confused: :p :D

I recommend the Al Mar SERE 2000. Sits with 100% of the knife concealed and it's a great, strong knife.

.
 
Quick summary.

Low Clip: example, Al Mar SERE 2000
Pro - knife sits deeper in the pocket thus making it less noticeable as a knife.
Con - because it sits deep in the pocket it is not as quick to access.

High/Mid Clip: example, Emerson CQC-7, Spyderco Endura
Pro - there is a little more to grab thus making access faster.
Con - looks like a knife clipped in your pocket.

As a law enforcement officer I would go for quicker access.
 
Hey Guys..

Solve all that Bull$hit and go with a fixed blade such as the Kabar TDI tucked in behind somewhere...

ttyle

Eric...
 
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