Copper and WI for fittings?

W

Will Leavitt

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Jul 28, 2006
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So what do people think of copper or wrought iron for fittings since brass is considered a no no? I have a knife on the books that will use a colored and hammer finished copper ferrule and buttcap and some other blades that will use wrought iron. It can't be a cost factor since the copper bar I bought at Batson's yesterday was $35 vs SS at $7 and WI at $15 ;)
 
My preferences only:

copper - I prefer it as an accent piece in fittings (such as a spacer) as opposed to the primary material for a guard or butt cap. Tarnishing is a problem. I do like to see it textured, however.

wrought iron - absolutely love the stuff.

Roger
 
I love working with wrought iron but it can be a real pain when it comes down to getting a nice etched finish. A couple of my best guards where pieces that were in the etchant and then got sidetracked and forgot them for a day. When it came out I figured it was back to the drawing board but when they got cleaned up it was WOW! As far as copper goes , spacers and collars with a bit of texture and a patinated finish look great to me. Paul
 
I love copper and wrought iron together. Iron being the main focus with copper accents.
Bronze is also a nice accent metal.
 
I love wrought and copper but polished copper will put off some folk's as it can turn on you. forged copper will leave them wet. I use fire to raise the grain on my wrought, But first i sand my part's to 400. then they go in the forge then I pop the scale off with a torch then wire buff and repeat when I like what I see its good.
 
Will, in my opinion there's a place for both. As others I prefer copper for accent/decorative design elements but rough iron fittings can add a whole new dimension to the look and feel of classic designs.
I'm especially fond of reclaimed rough iron from old wagon wheels, weapons and such.
Go for it man.
 
Copper and copper based alloys such as, brass, bronze, and nickel silver all have certain similar characteristics, yet are different only because of alloy content.

Copper in it's pure form is the softest and most malleable.

I like the color of bronze and copper, better than the other two. Bronze takes the nicest patina. It's not so much whether any are better or worse, but it really has more to do with "How" you use them. I think thin pieces should be "work hardened" and or be supported in some way. They are all perfectly acceptable if applied thoughtfully. Bronze does tend to be favored on high end pieces over brass. I think mainly because it “sounds” better than brass and is more closely associated with "fine art". One could also argue that bronze has a nicer color than brass. However, the two really aren’t that much different. Copper has great color, but some people think of it as being “cheap”.

I use more bronze and copper, than brass or nickel silver, out of personal preference.

There are also the Japanese copper alloys of shibuichi ("silver bronze") and shakudo ("gold bronze") to consider. Making those alloys yourself really isn't that hard. They look good and "sound" good.

Wrought iron is fine, if you like how it looks.
 
I think Tai Goo makes a good point, some materials just sound better..
Bronze = fine art
Brass = Bathroom fixtures

On a sidenote does anyone have a resource for wrought iron? I have a tough time finding it locally, if I say I want wrought iron at my local steel supplier they seem to think I want low carbon steel....
Grant
 
I think that all the copper alloys all have their place, but there are many different types of considerations to make when applying them to any given piece such as, color, physical properties, "psychological connotations/associations", price, availability, trends and tastes, etc.

I think brass was fashionable at one time for certain types of knives, and could be again. I wouldn't go so far as to say, don't use brass or buy a knife with brass. I think that's a bit of a stretch...

Copper is associated with electrical wire, pennies, commercial cookware, but also raised hollowware art such as bowls, vases etc...

Brass is associated with bathroom fixtures, door knobs, musical horns, lamps, cheap cast decorations, etc...

Bronze is associated with bells, cymbals, guitar strings, and cast fine art sculpture, etc...

Nickel silver is thought of as a cheap substitute for silver.

However, each have certain "physical properties" because of their alloy contents that can be an advantage, or disadvantage for certain applications.

And, there is the whole color, patina issue to consider as well.

I don’t really believe that there are any hard rules that are carved in granite, when considering their possible uses, and each can be used to your advantage if well thought out. :)
 
Oh,... and there are also associations with color.

White is associated with light, good, the Moon, etc...

Red is associated with fire, blood, Mars, apples, etc...

Yellow is associated with, cowardness, the Sun, urine, lemons, etc...

... stuff like that. :)
 
I'm a big fan of wrought iron. It is soft and easy to scratch, but I love the way it looks.

I prefer copper more as a spacer material than when used for a guard.
 
The most outstanding features of pure copper are it's color and malleability, in the context of metalsmithing.
 
Hi Tai,

Great information.

Brass is associated with bathroom fixtures, door knobs, musical horns, lamps, cheap cast decorations, etc...
Click to expand...

Your comment speaks directly to my comment about makers not using brass (except for historical replication pieces).

I think Copper and Bronze make excellent spacer material. As well both can be used for guard material under the right circumstances.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
I love wrought iron, one of my favorite knife is a Robb Hudson bowie with a WI guard and butt cap. It's great.

Copper is nice, but I like it better when it is patinated. Specifically, I like it best patinated the Japanese way with a rokusho solution. Here is a good tutorial from Jim Kelso:

http://www.jimkelso.com/japanpatina.html/tutorial.htm
 
Joss said:
I love wrought iron, one of my favorite knife is a Robb Hudson bowie with a WI guard and butt cap. It's great.

Copper is nice, but I like it better when it is patinated. Specifically, I like it best patinated the Japanese way with a rokusho solution. Here is a good tutorial from Jim Kelso:

http://www.jimkelso.com/japanpatina.html/tutorial.htm
Click to expand...


My original plan is to make a textured copper ferrule/collar and buttcap that are patinated, it's a Japanese inspired piece so I feel copper is appropriate with the proper treatment, I'd love to use some of the more complex materials but that would drive the cost up. Possibly in the future if there is a demand for a more upscale dressed version I may work on making mokume game or other traditional Japanese metal treatment.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Tai,

Great information.



Your comment speaks directly to my comment about makers not using brass (except for historical replication pieces).

I think Copper and Bronze make excellent spacer material. As well both can be used for guard material under the right circumstances.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Click to expand...

Les,
From metallurgical and utilitarian standpoints, there is absolutely nothing wrong with brass in comparison to pure copper and the other copper alloys.

But to tell you the truth,... I just never have liked it, and I can't totally explain why. Maybe because most of the brass alloys don't lend themselves as well to forging as some of the other copper alloys. Brass does however generally tend to lend itself better to stock reduction and machining. I don't care for the color yellow most of the time, but some people might associate it differently,… and like it, if used in just the right places or maybe just out of necessity.

Bronze and copper both do seem to have more romantic appeal, color, history, etc...
 
The nice things about nickel silver are that it's good for hot forging and really tough.
 
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