Cost gap-USA vs. Offshore

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Murdamook

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Is it just me, or are some of these knife specimens made in China really pushing the cost boundary? I’m not even sure it’s the actual manufacturer causing the high prices either. James Brand has Chinese manufacturing and charges an arm and a leg for their models. I just saw the Luft Concepts Avant. It’s a titanium liner lock with bearings and m390, but it’s $300. That’s absolutely outrageous for a knife made in China by Reate. I can get a titanium frame lock from ZT with analogous steel for $50 less than that. The entire draw of Chinese manufacturing was better quality materials for a cheaper price. What’s the point if you’re charging a higher price than US manufacturers?
 
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Murdamook said:
The entire draw of Chinese manufacturing was better quality materials for a cheaper price.
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That's not the draw for Reate.

I do agree that ZT offers exceptional value in this price bracket, though. IME Reate tends to go just that little extra mile further on some models -- like including a detent ball ramp, one of my favorite little touches.

Usually it's the design that sells me on a Reate knife, just like it is on a ZT knife. If ZT made the Chaves Ultramar 229 I'm sure it'd be great, but they don't; and vice versa for, say, the ZT 0462.
 
Reate can get expensive and I wouldn't use them as an example of value, although sometimes they are. WE, Kizer, MBK, and others typically offer better value.

Reate's quality is definitely a cut above ZT though. Comparing them to CRK, Hinderer, or Shirogorov is more accurate quality-wise.
 
Dadpool said:
That's not the draw for Reate.

I do agree that ZT offers exceptional value in this price bracket, though. IME Reate tends to go just that little extra mile further on some models -- like including a detent ball ramp, one of my favorite little touches.

Usually it's the design that sells me on a Reate knife, just like it is on a ZT knife. If ZT made the Chaves Ultramar 229 I'm sure it'd be great, but they don't; and vice versa for, say, the ZT 0462.
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So, if not for cost, what’s the draw of offshore production?
 
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I think in the cases you mentioned, they are hoping the marketing will get people to buy it anyway so they can pocket the difference in price as profit.
 
James brand is quite possibly the worst example you could have for this. They've always been overpriced pocket jewelry, not really meant for the knife community.


But the draw is that the knives are still incredibly well made. Reate has always been higher priced than Zt, WE is much more comparable. Haven't had an issue with either brand.
 
Dadpool said:
The draw is that the knives are great; quality, fit, finish, and design are on point. Same draw as ZT. ;)
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Hmm. I’ve never been attracted to their designs. If I’m going to spend $300 on a knife, I’d rather just bump up the hundo and get a Sebenza or Hinderer. Especially the example I mentioned with the Luft Concepts Avant. It’s micarta and M390 in a liner lock for $300. I just don’t see the value.
 
DrRollinstein said:
James brand is quite possibly the worst example you could have for this. They've always been overpriced pocket jewelry, not really meant for the knife community.


But the draw is that the knives are still incredibly well made. Reate has always been higher priced than Zt, WE is much more comparable. Haven't had an issue with either brand.
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That’s the opposite of “the worst example” considering it was part of my question: is it just outrageous brand mark up in the case of James Brand and Luft Concepts?
 
A little off topic…

This is why companies like Brooks Brothers, Neiman Marcus, London Fog, and many others have gone bankrupt. They switched to Chinese manufacturing to save costs, but kept their high prices to the consumer. They stopped buying their $200 Chinese made oxford shirts, etc and thus the bankruptcy filings

People aren’t stupid. But (some) people sure are greedy
 
I honestly think the idea of US made knives representing quality and overseas manufactured knives being purely a cost cutting measure is pretty wildly outdated. There's simply too much variety, good and bad, for those rules to hold particularly true any longer. If you restrict your buying for political reasons, more power to you, but in terms of value at this point I evaluate the specific company and knife, rather than relying on generalizations.
 
Dadpool Dadpool nailed it. You're comparing knives in different brackets. Reate is more in line with upper-tier knives like hinderer...its why they get contracted out to manufacture for alot of midtechs, etc.

The difference in price is noticeable, but not outrageous. I have a few titanium balisongs from Maxace that are built to perfection, how much? 250-285 (and that's with the import fees). How much are BRS and BM asking for these days? 400, 500?

I just want to point out that out of that 20-30 chinese knives I bought from good manufacturers, exactly 0 had quality issues, no off centered blade, no stiff action, no badly engaged linerlocks, nothing. Compared this to Benchmade, where I've gotten dull knives, offcenter blades, uneven grinds...

And even Spyderco, I recently bought 2 from knifecenter one was like a 75/25 offcenter, stiff as a rock action, and the other had side to side play. Nothing I cant fix, but just a comparison...at least Spydies always come very well sharpened, almost as good as Hogue.

Edit: forgot to mention boker though, their budget to mid-tier knives...such bad-mediocre build quality and fit/finish. And they come from China too, so the moral of the story is buy with the mentality of "made by" not "made in".

And lol@james brand.
 
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China has spent the last couple of decades improving their manufacturing infrastructure. They have invested in tooling, training, logistics, etc, and thus have become a very attractive place to have products manufactured to specification despite the cost savings.

Now one can debate about the political reasoning behind not purchasing from China and how the government artificially devalues their currency to make manufacturing more attractive in spite of the improved quality, but gone are the automatic days of "Made in China" = "cheap junk".

In truth, China is one of those weird super villains that does some truly diabolical things in terms of IP theft, human rights violations, environmental destruction, etc, yet they are laser focused on reinvestment and innovation to increase their competitive advantage in business and upgrading their infrastructure for their growing middle class. It makes me wonder what we could do in this country if we took a couple of pages out of that play book. I mean, minus the repression and iron fist policies as well as the theft and currency manipulation, etc;)

Sorry for the tangent. My point is that there are some really nice knives coming out of China that are expensive, but they would still be even more expensive if produced over here. Reate, IMHO, eats ZTs lunch in terms of quality and I would even go so far as to say rivels CRK's current offerings in terms of build quality.
 
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