Cost gap-USA vs. Offshore

Insipid Moniker said:
I honestly think the idea of US made knives representing quality and overseas manufactured knives being purely a cost cutting measure is pretty wildly outdated. There's simply too much variety, good and bad, for those rules to hold particularly true any longer. If you restrict your buying for political reasons, more power to you, but in terms of value at this point I evaluate the specific company and knife, rather than relying on generalizations.
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Not political reasons But ethical reasons
 
In before the 🔒 🔒 🔒

(Reate as a designer/seller of knives is not the same as their manufacturing side, and neither of those are really driving prices on U.S.-designed/China-made knives like James Brand. Available cash and demand for fancy knives among *consumers* are both driving the market overall. The fact that you can still get cheap knives an AliExpress is a unique quirk of the manufacturing infrastructure.)
 
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Steely_Gunz said:
China has spent the last couple of decades improving their manufacturing infrastructure. They have invested in tooling, training, logistics, etc, and thus have become a very attractive place to have products manufactured to specification despite the cost savings.

Now one can debate about the political reasoning behind not purchasing from China and how the government artificially devalues their currency to make manufacturing more attractive in spite of the improved quality, but gone are the automatic days of "Made in China" = "cheap junk".

In truth, China is one of those weird super villains that does some truly diabolical things in terms of IP theft, human rights violations, environmental destruction, etc, yet they are laser focused on reinvestment and innovation to increase their competitive advantage in business and upgrading their infrastructure for their growing middle class. It makes me wonder what we could do in this country if we took a couple of pages out of that play book. I mean, minus the repression and iron fist policies as well as the theft and currency manipulation, etc;)

Sorry for the tangent. My point is that there are some really nice knives coming out of China that are expensive, but they would still be even more expensive if produced over here. Reate, IMHO, eats ZTs lunch in terms of quality and I would even go so far as to say rivels CRK's current offerings in terms of build quality.
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I thought Reate was all hype. Then I got a sharp by design Evo typhoon and... It made me a believer. If that knife were made here it would be 2x's the price I paid. It is equal or better than my Hinderers. I carry and use my hinderers more though, the Evo is a non-work carry like my spyderco exclusives.

I have mostly USA knives however. Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, Hinderer... But I don't shy away from other countries of manufacture. At this point I don't see a reason because so much of what we buy comes from China or other countries with questionable politics and ethics. We can refuse to buy from them, but then you'd have to give up your car, phone, tvs, computers... Might as well go back to horse and buggy days.

Would be great to get them to stop their ways, but unless the governments of the world did something about it its not going to happen.
 
Murdamook said:
Is it just me, or are some of these knife specimens made in China really pushing the cost boundary?
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The "cost boundary" does not exist. These are luxury goods, much like designer handbags, or expensive watches. They are priced according to what the market can bear, almost unrelated to costs.

Some companies operate with fixed ROI (as per Sal, Spyderco does), but it's certainly not the norm.
 
ferider said:
The "cost boundary" does not exist. These are luxury goods, much like designer handbags, or expensive watches. They are priced according to what the market can bear, almost unrelated to costs.

Some companies operate with fixed ROI (as per Sal, Spyderco does), but it's certainly not the norm.
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The cost boundary is where a knife made in the PRC approaches the cost of a similar design from the US. Leaving politics and ethics out of it, Chinese knives have historically been cheaper and lower quality.

The Quality and cost of Chinese knives are both improving so the people that buy them because they are either cheap or a good value or both are getting priced out of the market.
 
soc_monki said:
I thought Reate was all hype. Then I got a sharp by design Evo typhoon and... It made me a believer. If that knife were made here it would be 2x's the price I paid. It is equal or better than my Hinderers. I carry and use my hinderers more though, the Evo is a non-work carry like my spyderco exclusives.

I have mostly USA knives however. Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, Hinderer... But I don't shy away from other countries of manufacture. At this point I don't see a reason because so much of what we buy comes from China or other countries with questionable politics and ethics. We can refuse to buy from them, but then you'd have to give up your car, phone, tvs, computers... Might as well go back to horse and buggy days.

Would be great to get them to stop their ways, but unless the governments of the world did something about it its not going to happen.
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The knives they make as the OEM for various American designers are impeccable. I’ve got 4 they’ve made for SBD and the Varga VBR, and each one is a piece of art. If they’d been made in the US, they’d cost a minimum of 50% more.
 
DMG said:
The cost boundary is where a knife made in the PRC approaches the cost of a similar design from the US. Leaving politics and ethics out of it, Chinese knives have historically been cheaper and lower quality.

The Quality and cost of Chinese knives are both improving so the people that buy them because they are either cheap or a good value or both are getting priced out of the market.
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This hasn't been true for a long time now, at least as long as I'm doing this as a hobby (6 years ?). Look on alibaba for Kevin John knives, for instance. Plus, there are high-end, high-cost hybrids, like CKF, where knives are made in the PRC and (supposedly) assembled outside. Further, look at the used market for certain knives, and you'll see that manufacturing costs are almost irrelevant to many of us.

Some of us do not buy knives in China for ethical reasons (like me now), some do. Some don't buy PRC knives due to quality concerns, but they are simply wrong.

My father in law still thinks Japanese cars are lower quality than his Ford. He does not consider that Ford adopted Toyota-invented manufacturing and quality processes long time ago. He is just stuck with an old stereotype.

Roland.
 
ferider said:
This hasn't been true for a long time now, at least as long as I'm doing this as a hobby (6 years ?). Look on alibaba for Kevin John knives, for instance. Plus, there are high-end, high-cost hybrids, like CKF, where knives are made in the PRC and (supposedly) assembled outside. Further, look at the used market for certain knives, and you'll see that manufacturing costs are almost irrelevant to many of us.

Some of us do not buy knives in China for ethical reasons (like me now), some do. Some don't buy PRC knives due to quality concerns, but they are simply wrong.

My father in law still thinks Japanese cars are lower quality than his Ford. He does not consider that Ford adopted Toyota-invented manufacturing and quality processes long time ago. He is just stuck with an old stereotype.

Roland.
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There are certainly high quality knives from the PRC but the majority are still built to an Ozark Trail price point with quality being of minimal importance. (I use Ozark Trail as an example because my neighbor gave me a few of their folders that are the worst knives I have ever used. made in China)

I own an auto repair shop and encounter folks like your FIL occasionally. They usually want me to put snow tires on the rear of their front wheel drive car.
 
ferider said:
The "cost boundary" does not exist. These are luxury goods, much like designer handbags, or expensive watches. They are priced according to what the market can bear, almost unrelated to costs.

Some companies operate with fixed ROI (as per Sal, Spyderco does), but it's certainly not the norm.
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I’m not saying there’s a literally economic boundary. I’m talking about Chinese knives now approaching the cost of US made counter parts. I know how markets are set and established. Perhaps watermark is a better word.
 
I agree. I really would like a pena x series but the price is just too much for me for a chinese knife. And i love me some chinese knives. But you’re right, when i can get an American made or American companies knife with an excellent warranty like zt or spyderco, it’s hard to say they are good values.
Civivi really hits the sweet spot for me as far as price and quality for a chinese knife. Cold steel does the same (taiwan). Any higher than that Im looking at a taichung spydie or something else.
 
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