COTS Project Thread

Top notch stuff going on in this thread. This is what its all about.

Those "first pass" handles from HH, those less or more $ than if you order em regular? Just wondering. Thanks!
 
So what do you guys think about this one?

Back story - I've been on the hunt for a 3lb Jersey for awhile now. Since seeing them as an option in old catalogs I have to presume there is one out there. In fact, I think we've seen catalogs with them listed even lighter. A 3lb axe on a 28" is one of my favorite things. Well I stumbled across this on evilbay listed as 3lbs. I quickly contacted the seller and asked if it was exactly 3lbs or what. No answer - top notch seller. It weighs 3lbs 5oz. At this time I cannot find a weight marking on it. It's in the bath right now so that I can take a look at the hardening line.

I'm just gonna throw out my observations, and see what you all think.

OK so first thing is that it appears there is some toe missing. The heel is very pointy and appears intact. Overall the head is proportionally smaller than my unmarked Kelly which is 3-1/2lbs. It appears that the bevels are pretty far back, but of course we know there were many Jersey patterns and many different approaches to the bevel concept. And if you guys look at the bit itself you may notice the remnants of a "banana grind" which may or may not be factory.
kelly_small1 by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

Now the top-down profile. Overall the head is nearly as "long" as the 3-1/2lb unmarked Kelly, however the bit is noticeably thicker. It appears that the bevels add some thickness but my Plumb Jersey with bevels has an almost identical top-down profile to the unmarked Kelly. Because of the bashing this axe had received in its lifetime the top and bottoms of the bit look somewhat thick, however I would describe them as pretty much the same as the unmarked Kelly when accounting for deformation.
kelly_smallbit by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

More pics when it comes out of the vinegar.
 
Last edited:
BaseCamp said:
I always get excited when I see updates in this thread!
Click to expand...

Thanks, but less than exciting news on this project I'm afraid. I think the beveled Kelly must have been slathered in oil of some kind because the vinegar got a slow start. I degreased and put it back in BUT I could already see the hardening line clearly on one side. Based on what I'm seeing, my opinion is that it was a 3-1/2lb head that now weighs 3lb, 5oz. So I don't believe it meets the standards for the amount of work that goes into a handle. Sorry guys :( Next project.
 
Not sure why I didn't put both handles together for the picture but I got two. The other one has some aggravating run-out - the grain runs across the handle pretty bad. Noticed something new with this pair, one is clearly made from 1-3/4" stock and this one is only 1-1/2" - hopefully in the picture you can see that the flats of the blank are on both sides of the swell. Not sure if they commonly use different size blanks or what.

28firstpass1 by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

28firstpass2 by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr


Gratuitous pics from a little hike/archery adventure today.

bidor_parang_woods2 by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr

walkbyfaith_woods2 by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
 
Progress today. The one in the middle is a 30" finished handle they sent to me that I went ahead and thinned down - it's not too bad though, it's just lacking some swell. On top you see the first pass handle with run-out. I'm not sure if I'll hang anything on it or not - I don't think there is a single growth ring running the entire length of it. It's also that sort of pinkish, not quite heartwood, whatever - seems like lesser quality wood, whereas the one on the bottom is a nice milky white.

There isn't much more I can do until heads show up. I'll leave the extra material below the swell until it's hung then put on the finishing touches. You may also notice that they didn't cut the angle in the one on the bottom (I wish I could get them to always leave it like this), so it would have the right amount of material for a real knob-end. But this is my first opportunity to do a real fawns foot (that isn't clipped) and that's what I am planning for this one.

28firstpass_progress by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
 
cityofthesouth said:
You may also notice that they didn't cut the angle in the one on the bottom (I wish I could get them to always leave it like this), so it would have the right amount of material for a real knob-end. But this is my first opportunity to do a real fawns foot (that isn't clipped) and that's what I am planning for this one.
Click to expand...

I'm good with either an unclipped fawns foot or a knob end. The part that is in your hand feels the same either way. There's just a stylistic difference. They both look good. The knob end is less common now and makes for a more historic look. I like 'em!

A clipped fawns foot leaves a sharp blister-raising corner in your palm.

Then there's this, the stump end. Just leave some material extending beyond the fawns foot. It's a comfortable grip.

stump%20end.jpg

Old%20Handle.JPG
 
cityofthesouth said:
On top you see the first pass handle with run-out. I'm not sure if I'll hang anything on it or not - I don't think there is a single growth ring running the entire length of it. It's also that sort of pinkish, not quite heartwood, whatever - seems like lesser quality wood, whereas the one on the bottom is a nice milky white.

28firstpass_progress by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
Click to expand...

You appear to be correct about the structural evaluation of the top one! Rather than toss it though I think 'pretty figured' handles such as this can be used to good effect (much like AAA fancy gun stocks) for the presentation of wall hangers. You can always burn a disclaimer on the back side; "not for actual use" even though it would likely stay together with light use until it experienced an overstrike.
 
Square_peg said:
I'm good with either an unclipped fawns foot or a knob end. The part that is in your hand feels the same either way. There's just a stylistic difference. They both look good. The knob end is less common now and makes for a more historic look. I like 'em!
Click to expand...

Yeah, at this point I do the different styles just to do them - for the looks of them. And since I haven't done an unclipped fawns foot that has been kinda what I'm after.

300Six said:
You appear to be correct about the structural evaluation of the top one! Rather than toss it though I think 'pretty figured' handles such as this can be used to good effect (much like AAA fancy gun stocks) for the presentation of wall hangers. You can always burn a disclaimer on the back side; "not for actual use" even though it would likely stay together with light use until it experienced an overstrike.
Click to expand...

That's a good point, it might just be the ticket if something too special for use comes along.
 
cityofthesouth said:
That's a good point, it might just be the ticket if something too special for use comes along.
Click to expand...

I recollect back on my much younger days when wood was merely wood and suspect that I would have selected this handle from the hardware store bin entirely based on 'prettiness'. You have to break a bunch and in short order (or subscribe to forums such as this), or be coached by a wood worker/tool user, in order to learn 'not to select' handles such as this.
 
Last edited:
300Six said:
I recollect back on my much younger days when wood was merely wood and suspect that I would have selected this handle from the hardware store bin entirely based on 'prettiness'. You have to break a bunch and in short order (or subscribe to forums such as this), or be coached by a wood worker/tool user, in order to learn 'not to select' handles such as this.
Click to expand...

Well I suppose in all fairness to House, it is really difficult to see run-out on the rough handles without looking pretty carefully at them. Of course, once it's smoothed down it's really obvious. I suspect they take a look at the end grain and call it good.
 
cityofthesouth said:
Well I suppose in all fairness to House, it is really difficult to see run-out on the rough handles without looking pretty carefully at them. Of course, once it's smoothed down it's really obvious. I suspect they take a look at the end grain and call it good.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. That runout would have been visible even in the sawn blank. These guys make 1000s of handles every day and if they enlisted the services of a crackerjack grader they'd probably lose money. Customers after all are the ultimate judge and there ain't too many knowledgeable ones around anymore. To be able to offer $10 handles (retail price) they've got to tolerate and ship all manner of grades and keep their fingers crossed that too many don't come back.
 
300Six said:
I beg to differ. That runout would have been visible even in the sawn blank. These guys make 1000s of handles every day and if they enlisted the services of a crackerjack grader they'd probably lose money. Customers after all are the ultimate judge and there ain't too many knowledgeable ones around anymore. To be able to offer $10 handles (retail price) they've got to tolerate and ship all manner of grades and keep their fingers crossed that too many don't come back.
Click to expand...

You aren't differing because we aren't talking about the same thing. You're saying it's not difficult to grade handles or wood. I never said it was. I said, in plain English, rough handles - the subject of conversation - take more time to grade than they may typically spend, or can afford to spend, on two handles. Once they are roughed out like that, the grain is difficult to see. This isn't my opinion, it just is. Anyone can see it, but it takes more than 2 seconds to notice it. And then everything else you said just backs up what I was saying so I think that means we agree. There ya have it, no begging required.

And then you're going to say, well yeah but I was saying it could have been seen in the blank before it ever got to the rough handle stage. Except that you're speculating as to whether or not they grade the handles at a particular stage in the process. Blank, rough or finished. 1: since I don't think run-out figures into their grading system, how does it help if they grade from the blank in this case? And 2: since it's more difficult to see run-out (plus 1) I doubt they grade at the rough stage.

I also qualified all my statements with social cues like "I suppose" or "pretty carefully" as if to suggest that I didn't intend my statements to be read as fully genuine or that I was generalizing.

I know this is the internet where people spend all their time looking to correct other people even when they aren't on the same page, but what the hell this is my thread. Is it cool with the mods if I just declare that shit isn't allowed in my thread? No? Fine.

wrong by city_ofthe_south, on Flickr
 
Last edited:
Good luck COTS - you are 100% correct - and you are fighting a battle that can't be won, but I salute you in trying!!!
 
Quick, post some more pix of your handiwork and bury the extraneous chatter! I don't know where you get your patients with wood. I want to shape, sand, fit, seal, polish, hang all in the same couple hours! Keep the projects updates/pix coming!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top