Makael
Loving wife, kids and life.
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Could these Chinese knives really be that good?
- Thread starter AshesFall
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Last edited:
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Yeah that's the point I'd start to agree with. The only compelling argument for clones is how cheap they are. Who the hell is buying a clone of a 110, which is like a 35 dollar knife max.
The Buck IS a clone
More China made knives than you can shake your fist at ..
Ruike = Every one I own is disappointing ( Edge Retention )
Civivi Dogma = Mine is a Dog ! ( For D2 , edge retention is terrible and barely compares to 420 )
CH Knives = Good and Bad ... ( It's a lottery )
TwoSun = Mostly Good , a few have disappointing .
Ganzo = Mostly Good D2 ( At least they try )
QSP = D2 seems to be good 440 seems to be not so great
Columbia = Mine are excellent ( I have 5 so far )
WithArmour = Edge retention is poor
Brother 440 = Terrible edge retention
Kubey D2 = Good
Manly Comrade D2 = Bad ( Eastern Europe ) Added it cos it's Bad ( mine has terrible edge retention - tested many times - fresh bevel )
Tunafire = Ok
Real Steel = OK
Since getting a wet stone grinder ...
The grinder really shows up bad grinds ...
And so far 2021 it's been mostly bad grinds on every knife purchased .
TwoSun TS16 D2 - factory 300 / guided 250 / ground 650
Results of edge retention testing a TwoSun TS16 D2 flipper .
Re sharpening with a guided knife sharpener lost me 50 slices ...
Putting down a fresh bevel with the wet stone grinder ( grinding out the FUBAR ) netted me some 650 slices on the edge retention test .
Over 100% gain on the factory edge ..
Factory edges have been disappointing in 2021 .. A few knives have stood out .
TwoSun TS116 ( 400 Fail )
TwoSun TS89 ( 450 Fail )
All other knives have had to have a fresh bevel put down to clean up factory FUBAR .
I just tested a 440 the other day , it failed at 50 slices ( of rope )
After a regrind , it did a 250 Fail ..... 50 Factory VS 250 Regrind ...
Some knives come good with a fresh bevel , and some knives never come good ( bad steel ? ) ....... ( Cough cough - civivi )
Funny year 2021 .. Cheap knives that perform , and expensive knives that are garbage ...
Ruike = Every one I own is disappointing ( Edge Retention )
Civivi Dogma = Mine is a Dog ! ( For D2 , edge retention is terrible and barely compares to 420 )
CH Knives = Good and Bad ... ( It's a lottery )
TwoSun = Mostly Good , a few have disappointing .
Ganzo = Mostly Good D2 ( At least they try )
QSP = D2 seems to be good 440 seems to be not so great
Columbia = Mine are excellent ( I have 5 so far )
WithArmour = Edge retention is poor
Brother 440 = Terrible edge retention
Kubey D2 = Good
Manly Comrade D2 = Bad ( Eastern Europe ) Added it cos it's Bad ( mine has terrible edge retention - tested many times - fresh bevel )
Tunafire = Ok
Real Steel = OK
Since getting a wet stone grinder ...
The grinder really shows up bad grinds ...
And so far 2021 it's been mostly bad grinds on every knife purchased .
TwoSun TS16 D2 - factory 300 / guided 250 / ground 650
Results of edge retention testing a TwoSun TS16 D2 flipper .
Re sharpening with a guided knife sharpener lost me 50 slices ...
Putting down a fresh bevel with the wet stone grinder ( grinding out the FUBAR ) netted me some 650 slices on the edge retention test .
Over 100% gain on the factory edge ..
Factory edges have been disappointing in 2021 .. A few knives have stood out .
TwoSun TS116 ( 400 Fail )
TwoSun TS89 ( 450 Fail )
All other knives have had to have a fresh bevel put down to clean up factory FUBAR .
I just tested a 440 the other day , it failed at 50 slices ( of rope )
After a regrind , it did a 250 Fail ..... 50 Factory VS 250 Regrind ...
Some knives come good with a fresh bevel , and some knives never come good ( bad steel ? ) ....... ( Cough cough - civivi )
Funny year 2021 .. Cheap knives that perform , and expensive knives that are garbage ...
Last edited:
Chronovore
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Factory edges can be pretty bad across the board. Massive gains over factory edges are very common in cut testing. It can take at least a few times sharpening down to get fresh steel and a true feel for how well a particular company does with a particular steel. I think an important issue here is just how far you have to go with some of these knives before you are getting past the burnt bit.
Overall, Chinese D2 can be pretty hit or miss. There has been a lot of speculation on why. It could be sensitivity in mass heat treating. It could be higher fatigue during factory grinding. The vanadium content seems to vary as well. Surprisingly, the cheaper Civivi knives in 9Cr18Mov often tend to hold a better edge. WE's good heat treatment on 9Cr18Mov has been a happy discovery.
Also mirrored in my own use: 440C from QSP isn't very good, Chinese D2 from both Kubey and Ganzo seems a little better than average, Real Steel tends to be "okay". Coincidentally, it seems that Real Steel and Ruike are both made by Sanrenmu.
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I can't speak to the cheaper brands, but WE/Civivi and Reate are very high quality. Civivi is excellent value. WE and Reate aren't cheap, but IMO you won't find a better US-manufactured knife in the same materials for the same money. Speaking only to quality of manufacture here.
WE (and their budget brands), Reate, Kizer, QSP, Tuyaknife, hmmmm that's about it for the list of Chinese companies I would recommend without reservation.
Actually, Tuya did do a copy of the Giant Mouse GM(1?) before they went through a bit of a refocusing and debuted as a legitimate brand. And I have only handled three of their framelocks, but they're well made and as long as they're testing well with the steel nerds I'd say you would be happy with one of their knives.
Rike also has generally excellent build quality, but they irritated some people by releasing a framelock with some design features and proportions that were suspiciously reminiscent of the Spyderco Tropen, without being a copy of it or even outside of Richard Wu's design language. They were obviously not the same knife while presenting a very 'inspired-by' feel. But their ZD-006 and Thor4s are really nice if a bit thick in the grind.
Kizer knives often require a little bit of spa work and a break in period to settle into the action and lockup that the knife actually has, and I find that they have wildly different tolerance for having no thread locker in the pivot. Some don't loosen up all that quickly, others are important to goo up with loctite once you've fiddled with it for a few days. I also have a tendency to buy them on sale or when I think they're a particularly good deal, but that's how I buy almost every knife. I like how they engage with us knife dorks and try to offer interesting exclusives that we'll be into. There's a reason we snap up the sprint runs and I'm thrilled that there is such an embarrassment of riches for knife likers today.
WE and Reate are the most uncomplicated recommendations, they certainly belong on any top ten list of major production knife makers, and for many people they are easily top five. Any manufactured good might have a few lemons, but in general with these two you should expect a perfectly excellent knife with nothing quality wise to complain about.
QSP is new but I've got a few of their knives and I'm very happy with them. If they catch on and see commercial success I think they'll gain a great reputation. The Pelican and Puffin are my two favorite from them.
Oh Bestech is pretty good too, they're just always missing my short list because I like WE and Kizer better. I do have an MBK Mini Old Guard that they manufactured, it's really good, not my favorite but I like it a lot and will probably keep it even though I rarely carry it. They are very busy with OEM work these days.
Artisan Cutlery and CJRB are another one you don't have to question the materials on. I've had a little vertical wiggle in a couple of their budget knives and I hate wiggle, especially vertical, but it wasn't alarming and didn't seem to cause lock slips. So they're not on my radar because I only have so much money, but the Maileah at $36 for micarta and their powdered steel is a must buy in my eyes. Mine has no issues either.
Oh and Real Steel and Ruike are both good, I like their actions and fit and finish. Real Steel is not messing around with their grinds and action in particular, I bought a G-Frame last week and it's super. Way above it's pay grade.
I would stick to any of the manufacturers that are doing legitimately good work and be willing to spend more than thirty bucks, personally. Finding a discontinued Kizer or WE that's seventy dollars off and appeals to you is my suggestion. Sometimes you can find titanium framelock Kizers for a hundred, and designs that people like too, not just their dogs.
Actually, Tuya did do a copy of the Giant Mouse GM(1?) before they went through a bit of a refocusing and debuted as a legitimate brand. And I have only handled three of their framelocks, but they're well made and as long as they're testing well with the steel nerds I'd say you would be happy with one of their knives.
Rike also has generally excellent build quality, but they irritated some people by releasing a framelock with some design features and proportions that were suspiciously reminiscent of the Spyderco Tropen, without being a copy of it or even outside of Richard Wu's design language. They were obviously not the same knife while presenting a very 'inspired-by' feel. But their ZD-006 and Thor4s are really nice if a bit thick in the grind.
Kizer knives often require a little bit of spa work and a break in period to settle into the action and lockup that the knife actually has, and I find that they have wildly different tolerance for having no thread locker in the pivot. Some don't loosen up all that quickly, others are important to goo up with loctite once you've fiddled with it for a few days. I also have a tendency to buy them on sale or when I think they're a particularly good deal, but that's how I buy almost every knife. I like how they engage with us knife dorks and try to offer interesting exclusives that we'll be into. There's a reason we snap up the sprint runs and I'm thrilled that there is such an embarrassment of riches for knife likers today.
WE and Reate are the most uncomplicated recommendations, they certainly belong on any top ten list of major production knife makers, and for many people they are easily top five. Any manufactured good might have a few lemons, but in general with these two you should expect a perfectly excellent knife with nothing quality wise to complain about.
QSP is new but I've got a few of their knives and I'm very happy with them. If they catch on and see commercial success I think they'll gain a great reputation. The Pelican and Puffin are my two favorite from them.
Oh Bestech is pretty good too, they're just always missing my short list because I like WE and Kizer better. I do have an MBK Mini Old Guard that they manufactured, it's really good, not my favorite but I like it a lot and will probably keep it even though I rarely carry it. They are very busy with OEM work these days.
Artisan Cutlery and CJRB are another one you don't have to question the materials on. I've had a little vertical wiggle in a couple of their budget knives and I hate wiggle, especially vertical, but it wasn't alarming and didn't seem to cause lock slips. So they're not on my radar because I only have so much money, but the Maileah at $36 for micarta and their powdered steel is a must buy in my eyes. Mine has no issues either.
Oh and Real Steel and Ruike are both good, I like their actions and fit and finish. Real Steel is not messing around with their grinds and action in particular, I bought a G-Frame last week and it's super. Way above it's pay grade.
I would stick to any of the manufacturers that are doing legitimately good work and be willing to spend more than thirty bucks, personally. Finding a discontinued Kizer or WE that's seventy dollars off and appeals to you is my suggestion. Sometimes you can find titanium framelock Kizers for a hundred, and designs that people like too, not just their dogs.
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WE is one of the best IMO. I've picked up six most at discount prices, when they're discontinued. Got a Bullit for less than 150 and I've been using it as EDC for a few months now and it's one of my favorites. It's solid and cuts very well. Flips push button, or light switch method equally as well.
Oklahoma Outlaw
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I’ll never know.
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Never say never! What if you accidentally pick one up and say oh this isn't half bad and then realize it was made in China and it in fact did not burn your skin immediately like the fake holy grail in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?
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Oklahoma Outlaw
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RousingRabbles
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Knife manufacturing has changed quite a bit in the past year or two. Some of the most well known knives right now are designed by American designers who typically do custom work and produced by highly regarded Chinese manufacturers. Reate, We, Kizer, James brand, Bestech all have pretty good reputations and are making blades on par with American companies. But in the price range you’re saying it’s most definitely gonna be hit or miss.
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I try not to buy anything manufactured in Communist China. OTOH, I have a number of excellent knives manufactured in Taiwan, a democracy now threatened by the CCP.
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Civivi has the lower price range covered and quality is definitely never hit or miss.
Chuck_Nunface
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I can't remember the maker, but this knife was a blatant rip-off of a small shop design. There was a big to-do about it a year and a half, maybe longer, ago.
I'm liking that TS21 mind
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It's very, very hard to beat CIVIVI for the price. If I'm spending more than around $100-150 I'm probably getting some flavor of US made auto at this point, but I'm genuinely uncertain if there's anyone that's realistically competing with CIVIVI in terms of build quality in the under $100 market.
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