Counterfeit, anyone?

EveryDayIsHalloween · Aug 25, 2021

Some great knowledge here. New to the forum. Are there any examples of the Thompson Voyager counterfeits/clones? Didn’t see any and read this entire thread. Thanks and pleased to meet y’all.

The Whip · Aug 29, 2021

EveryDayIsHalloween said:
Some great knowledge here. New to the forum. Are there any examples of the Thompson Voyager counterfeits/clones? Didn’t see any and read this entire thread. Thanks and pleased to meet y’all.

I'm not aware of counterfeits of that specific model. But given how long it's been out of production, how desirable it's become, and the fact that the Chinese have already counterfeited multiple versions of the XL Voyager Vaquero (including green-handled and black-bladed iterations), I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are fakes out there. I definitely wouldn't recommend paying a premium for one unless you can be certain it's genuine.

-Steve

EveryDayIsHalloween · Aug 29, 2021

The Whip said:
I'm not aware of counterfeits of that specific model. But given how long it's been out of production, how desirable it's become, and the fact that the Chinese have already counterfeited multiple versions of the XL Voyager Vaquero (including green-handled and black-bladed iterations), I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are fakes out there. I definitely wouldn't recommend paying a premium for one unless you can be certain it's genuine.

-Steve

Appreciate it! Favorite thing about it is the colors. Maybe have one made from a serrated Vaquero by a hungry maker one of these days instead. Have multiples in the collection and love them.

EveryDayIsHalloween · Sep 13, 2021

My mistake..

MolokaiRider · Oct 5, 2021

I just received this American Lawman and am suspicious it may be counterfeit.

Any tell tale signs? Or maybe this is the new iteration after the sale of the business?

jux t · Oct 6, 2021

MolokaiRider said:
I just received this American Lawman and am suspicious it may be counterfeit.

Any tell tale signs? Or maybe this is the new iteration after the sale of the business?
View attachment 1654724 View attachment 1654730 View attachment 1654732 View attachment 1654733 View attachment 1654735

I don’t have a new AL to compare, but looks legit to me for several reasons:

New logo- haven’t seen counterfeits with the new logo (yet)

DLC- looks like real DLC

Grind- your XHP version has a hollow grind that didn’t come all the way to the choil, and the new ones do.

Tang- top photo shows squared off tang which is normal from newer AL’s I’ve seen. The grind in this area isn’t always consistent judging from the CS’s in my collection.

nephron · Oct 6, 2021

jux t said:
I don’t have a new AL to compare, but looks legit to me for several reasons:

New logo- haven’t seen counterfeits with the new logo (yet)

DLC- looks like real DLC

Grind- your XHP version has a hollow grind that didn’t come all the way to the choil, and the new ones do.

Tang- top photo shows squared off tang which is normal from newer AL’s I’ve seen. The grind in this area isn’t always consistent judging from the CS’s in my collection.

For what its worth I agree.

MolokaiRider · Oct 6, 2021

jux t said:
I don’t have a new AL to compare, but looks legit to me for several reasons:

New logo- haven’t seen counterfeits with the new logo (yet)

DLC- looks like real DLC

Grind- your XHP version has a hollow grind that didn’t come all the way to the choil, and the new ones do.

Tang- top photo shows squared off tang which is normal from newer AL’s I’ve seen. The grind in this area isn’t always consistent judging from the CS’s in my collection.

nephron said:
For what its worth I agree.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. It had me wondering, that's for sure. I just got these two and noted the markings were different too.

I will chalk these up as the blue is older stock, while the red is newer.

tess_lawrie_fan · Oct 6, 2021

MolokaiRider, what you can say about the changes in the ricasso area of the American Lawman? I mean, I can see that the old one can be safely closed with one hand, but is that true for the new one also?

MolokaiRider · Oct 6, 2021

tess_lawrie_fan said:
MolokaiRider, what you can say about the changes in the ricasso area of the American Lawman? I mean, I can see that the old one can be safely closed with one hand, but is that true for the new one also?

Yes, but you must really hold your finger as far forward as possible. If you are not paying attention you will get bit, especially since the blade is sharpened the whole length of the primary grind.

tess_lawrie_fan · Oct 6, 2021

MolokaiRider said:
Yes, but you must really hold your finger as far forward as possible. If you are not paying attention you will get bit, especially since the blade is sharpened the whole length of the primary grind.

Maybe I'm a cranky guy too, but after seeing these pics, I totally lost my wish to buy an American Lawman. Of course it's still a valuable folder, but it pales when compared with the older one.

MolokaiRider · Oct 6, 2021

tess_lawrie_fan said:
Maybe I'm a cranky guy too, but after seeing these pics, I totally lost my wish to buy an American Lawman. Of course it's still a valuable folder, but it pales when compared with the older one.

Yes, it's a strange thing, but it does not have the same feel as the previous models. The primary grind is different, the badging is not as nice, the DLC feels a bit different.

It Is a good knife though, just different. I am assuming the manufacturing and heat treat will still be at the high standards of previous models.

tess_lawrie_fan · Oct 6, 2021

This conversation reminded me that there's one thing I'd like to remark.

I have ordered and received (from a legit store) some "Made in Taiwan" Cold Steel fixed knives in the past weeks. And, despite having zero experience with them (apart from seeing videos and pics), I haven't posted a single one in this thread.

They are so well finished that I immediately assumed they're legit.

Hence, I'd like to greet not only Lynn and his staff, but also the Taiwanese workers. You guys are great and deserve my utmost respect. Well done! 👏👏👏

c7m2p3 · Oct 6, 2021

MolokaiRider said:
Yes, it's a strange thing, but it does not have the same feel as the previous models. The primary grind is different, the badging is not as nice, the DLC feels a bit different.

It Is a good knife though, just different. I am assuming the manufacturing and heat treat will still be at the high standards of previous models.

Not sure if its possible for you to do but the for sure test would be a cut test. Cut tests arent perfect and there will always be variability between grinds, the edge you put on it, the material you are cutting, the etc.

However, if you have the means it would be informative to try and put similar edges on both knives, allow some cardboard or something similar to accumulate and put them both through their paces. Again, its not perfect but the very first thing that a fake will do is change out the steel to cut corners and make money.

XHP is good stuff and by most accounts will hold an edge for longer than S35VN but it wont hold it DOUBLE as long. If there is a drastic and notable deterioration in the edge on the newer one in question there is a chance you have a fake in some variation of 440 stainless or XCr variant.

nephron · Oct 6, 2021

I like the sharpened edge on the new one better.

jux t · Dec 6, 2021

Does anyone know how to tell a real Tuff Lite from a fake one? I assume there are fakes out there because they sell them on the well known shipper of fakes from China.

The pictures look like real ones to me. I want to avoid buying a fake elsewhere.

nephron · Dec 6, 2021

jux t said:
Does anyone know how to tell a real Tuff Lite from a fake one? I assume there are fakes out there because they sell them on the well known shipper of fakes from China.

The pictures look like real ones to me. I want to avoid buying a fake elsewhere.

Buy from reputable dealers?

jux t · Dec 6, 2021

nephron said:
Buy from reputable dealers?

I was browsing the used market. Do you know of any ways to tell them apart? That is what this thread is about, after all.

nephron · Dec 6, 2021

No not for sure,that is the problem. I have seen the same seller with authentic and another time cloned. Luckily they were easily ID'ed as such unlike many current models. I really got into knives,especially CS, about 12 years ago. It has changed so much in that time, my buying has become super cautious now. If you do it enough you will eventually get burned, comes with the territory. I buy most on here I think. Buying on the used market is all about patience.
Good luck.

c7m2p3 · Dec 7, 2021

jux t said:
I was browsing the used market. Do you know of any ways to tell them apart? That is what this thread is about, after all.

Unfortunately that is the trade off when it comes to the used market. High risk but also high reward. You may get a great deal on a quality used blade, or you may get an absolute rip off. Forums like this are a good place to start but if you have to use major sites try looking at some of the details to give you clues.

Sometimes the country of origin will be obvious. Used Cold steel shipping from China? Not impossible but not likely. Take a look at some of the reviews. If they are positive, take a look at the diction and the language to see if they are likely spoof reviews written by a non English speaker or if there are patterns between one review to the next. Sometimes it can be easy to identify when the same person is spitting out multiple positive reviews from different accounts to boost their customer service rating.

If you are buying here on the forums or somewhere similar, check out the sellers profile. If they are an active member, your chances of getting an authentic product is much higher than if they have 2 posts and it looks like someone created an account just to sell one or two knives...