Counterfeits- The Truth of the matter

Status
Not open for further replies.
One thing I've never understood about people who buy counterfeits, especially Hinderer counterfeits, is that they often cite their reason as that real Hinderers are too expensive. To me, that's a load of bollocks. If you want a cheap Hinderer, buy a Cryo. Hell, there's even a Cryo2 and the Thermite in the works that are all designed by Hinderer. So you're getting the Hinderer design and supporting an American company instead of some no-name Chinese knockoffs. Even Strider had a collaboration with Buck so you can get a cheap real Strider as well. So at least to me, the too expensive argument is rubbish.

I agree in the concept of counterfeits, whether copy in design or "direct" clone are harmful to the American economy. In most cases, these counterfeits tend to be based off popular knives such as the Hinderer or sebenza. Being as they are popular knives, more people will buy it's knock-offs.

The cryo on the other hand, though well know in the knife community, is not as prevalent in regards to its reputation outside of the knife community. It is likely the majority of individuals who purchase such counterfeits are not even aware that the cryo even exists, rather--just purchasing a knife they deem to be "cool" or aesthetically pleasing.

The most clear and most effective resolve, in my opinion, would be just to create more awareness on this issue. It is inevitable that counterfeits will continued to be made and efforts to directly curb its production is difficult to say the least. Should international recognition of properties even be enacted, it is unlikely to be done in the next few years--let alone for it to be effective. As a community if we could collaborate our efforts on spreading awareness to our peers and knife communities across other boards, that, I believe will have the strongest impact in resolving this counterfeit predicament.
 
The intellectual property debate only works if you are not part of the equation .Let us say you draw up a design make a prototype, work out the bugs and the days after you have a perfect sample in hand the guy next door walks in with a copy he just purchased on the street for $15; you would be cool with that?

It happens all the TIME, even here on bladeforums. Keep your good ideas to yourself.
 
Great topic and one that isn't brought up often.

I would like to throw in my 2 cents on this and I am going to stay away from the intellectual property side. The individual who buys the fake/counterfeit of anything is just showing who he really is. There are those who have the honor to wait and spend the money on the real thing, then there are those who will buy and wear the fake and this indeed shows their character as that of a fake themselves. I would rather own a picture of the item than a fake.

The fake watch industry is probably the biggest culprit. There are even fake watch forums. How much Honor do you have when you support liars and cheats?
 
Sometimes we cause the chase for counterfeits ourselves by charging so much for the originals. I know a lot of woman buy counterfeit purses because the originals they want cost between $500- $1000.00 for a purse. Same with shoes, knives and watches ect.
 
Sometimes we cause the chase for counterfeits ourselves by charging so much for the originals. I know a lot of woman buy counterfeit purses because the originals they want cost between $500- $1000.00 for a purse. Same with shoes, knives and watches ect.

and that is no excuse. Originals cost a lot because they are not mass produced in China. To have something made well in the west requires higher production costs due to labor laws, and high overhead. The fact is that if you want a Louis Vuitton handbag then either pay the high price or get a Coach handbag for $300. If you can't afford a $8k Rolex Submariner, then get yourself another watch that fits in your budget. Plain and simple. You will get more respect from people with a real version of something not as expensive than a fake of the real thing. Louis Vuitton and Rolex have no problem selling their high priced product. And the resale on those products is also high because of that.

Hell based on that theory we could start turning chrysler 300's into Rolls Royce's.
 
lost ? funny no one finds Jesus, he is never lost.... " funny how everyone seems to locate Jesus in a dark room "
 
Like US grown pistachios? Pistachios were exclusive, and tightly protected by Iran for millennia, until some were stolen and smuggled to the US, and now we're grow them. Or US made sparkling wine that gets called "Champagne" even though it is not from Champaign France? Every main on earth rips the intellectual property of other nations off if they get the chance.
 
Like US grown pistachios? Pistachios were exclusive, and tightly protected by Iran for millennia, until some were stolen and smuggled to the US, and now we're grow them.


"Archaeologists have found evidence from excavations at Jarmo in northeastern Iraq[1] that pistachio seeds were a common food as early as 6750 BC.[1] The Hanging Gardens of Babylon were said to have contained pistachio trees during the reign of King Merodach-Baladan about 700 BC.[1] The modern pistachio P. vera was first cultivated in Western Asia, where it has long been an important crop in cooler parts of Iran and Iraq. It appears in Dioscurides as pistakia πιστάκια, recognizable as P. vera by its comparison to pine nuts.[3] Its cultivation spread into the Mediterranean world by way of Persia from Syria.
Additionally, remains of the Atlantic pistachio and pistachio seed along with nut-cracking tools were discovered by archaeologists at the Gesher Benot Ya'aqov site in Israel's Hula Valley, dated to 780,000 years ago.[4]
Pliny the Elder in his Natural History asserts that pistacia, “well known among us,” was one of the trees unique to Syria, and that the seed was introduced into Italy by the Roman consul in Syria, Lucius Vitellius the Elder (consul in Syria in 35 AD) and into Hispania at the same time by Flaccus Pompeius.[5] The early sixth-century manuscript De observatione ciborum (“On the observance of foods”) by Anthimus implies that pistacia remained well known in Europe in Late Antiquity. The pistachio is one of three seeds mentioned in the Bible. The pistachio is mentioned once, in Genesis 43:11, as is the walnut in Song of Songs 6:11, while the almond is mentioned many times.
More recently, the pistachio has been cultivated commercially in many parts of the English-speaking world, in Australia, and in New Mexico[6] and California, of the United States, where it was introduced in 1854 as a garden tree.[7] David Fairchild of the United States Department of Agriculture introduced hardier cultivars collected in China to California in 1904 and 1905, but it was not promoted as a commercial crop until 1929.[6][8] Walter T. Swingle’s pistachios from Syria had already fruited well at Niles by 1917.[9]
The earliest records of pistachio in English are around roughly year 1400, with the spellings “pistace” and “pistacia”. The word pistachio comes from medieval Italian pistacchio, which is from classical Latin pistacium, which is from ancient Greek pistákion and pistákē, which is generally believed to be from Middle Persian, although unattested in Middle Persian. Later in Persian, the word is attested in Persian as pista. As mentioned, the tree came to the ancient Greeks from Western Asia."


Traded Goods between the Orient and Europe

"The cultivation area of the pistachio expanded further with the spread of Islam and the resulting Arab expansion. Alongside the Crusades, the Levant trade in the Middle Ages was also widespread. The Venetian Republic, in particular, had close trade ties with Syria, one of the main cultivation areas for the pistachio. The goods reached Northern and Central Italy via the sea trade routes."
 
Last edited:
What I find indefensible is that neither the Customs Service nor the State Dept are very aggressive in pursuing patent/copyright enforcement with foreign governments. Everyone knows that China is the primary world source of counterfeit goods, and yet the federal government acts as if the whole issue is too petty for them to waste their time with. Given that losses to American industry are in the billions of dollars a year you'd think they'd get their thumbs out of their asses and try to 'encourage' the Chinese to actually police their own people. Of course, the one industry the federal government is willing to help with this is the pharmaceuticals industry. But that's really only because Big Pharma outright owns Congress. For everyone else it's too bad, so sad.
 
It is the right holders duty to pursue claims. Not the state. With a place like you mentioned barely cooperating with IBM and Apple, I think its safe to assume the cost is unreasonable to justify the action despite the rightful claim.
 
If you watched the video, the above statement is made quite clear.
A noted sneaker maker spent thousands of dollars to pursue their claim in the courts in China, only to have their claim dismissed.
Then they went after the claim with another angle and actually won the court case and nothing else.
The criminals were shut down from making that particular product for a short time, until they retooled in a different location. Whereupon they continued to make and market the same counterfeit product with a simple minor almost un-noticeable change to the logo, effectively counteracting any further claims in China by the copyright holder. Thousands of dollars spent for much of nothing. One thing to win a court case....and another for a ruling to actually be enforced.

The only way to fight these criminals is for foreign manufacturing contracts to be pulled from the country and high tariffs/taxes to be placed upon any shipments from them and for consumers to wise up and stop purchasing the products.
 
there is some counterfeit insight vids on youtube, indeed some manufacturers bring it to there selfs, contract for 100.000 items after the order is filled, they don't stop producing and items are sold on the black market , there is very little honor in business deals in China
 
there is some counterfeit insight vids on youtube, indeed some manufacturers bring it to there selfs, contract for 100.000 items after the order is filled, they don't stop producing and items are sold on the black market , there is very little honor in business deals in China

A friend of mine told me I should try the really popular NEW "Twin man" knife from China. Not only did I lose a lot is respect for someone who has their head in the sand, I also had to tell them their national pride originated from from Germany just a couple hundred years earlier.

It does seem to be a big mistake to do buainess with people who do not share common values.
 
The only way to fight these criminals is for foreign manufacturing contracts to be pulled from the country and high tariffs/taxes to be placed upon any shipments from them and for consumers to wise up and stop purchasing the products.


Could not agree more. Bring the jobs back to the US. I feel there is no pride in this country anymore. People will save 50 cents on a item and buy the overseas produced version instead of the domestic. This kind of thinking will do us in.
 
Could not agree more. Bring the jobs back to the US. I feel there is no pride in this country anymore. People will save 50 cents on a item and buy the overseas produced version instead of the domestic. This kind of thinking will do us in.

you can not solve this problem like this,
because we are not talking about 50 cents.. i think the retail price for most products will be 3 to 5 time more,
this will stop the economy engines turning, as the gross off the people just don't want to pay to much, and retailers want to make a profit

the pricing will go up from china made, as they will also catch on to the rabbit race in making money, as the living standards will get higher in China, and more expensive,
and they will start to outsourcing there selfs,
mind you China is one off the biggest investors world wide, already thinking forward investing heavy in rich mineral deposited countries in Africa,
i would not call theme a 3 world country
 
I just want to chime in and admit that I bought a clone of a Strider SNG. I really liked the way they looked and needed a good copy to test the ergonomics before laying out four hundred damn dollars. Clone came, bought second hand, got used for 2 weeks, and gpknives just received an order for one of their exclusive orange handled SnGs. I found the clone very helpful in making this decision, and am giving it to a mechanic non knife guy I work with who asked me for a cheap tough large knife for work. I buy American about as often as I could (15,000 worth of Snap-On to date, big Spyderco and Benchmade collection, whatever) and morally find the practice of counterfeit goods reprehensible. So, without any argument their, and without claiming that my case is somehow the norm and that makers get their money in the end because of buyers like me, I would like to note that in this case a clone did end with a sale of the legitimate goods. Thanks.
 
There will always be counterfeits, as long as there's humans and we use money this is going to happen. If you want to get rid of greed and selfishness you'll need to get rid of humanity. There's slavery in the world, human trafficking, animal abuse, the Government is corrupt, the economy sucks and it's not going to get better any time soon. America is turning into a police state, our gov't spent 100's of billions of our tax money to fight 2 wars that were completely pointless and ineffective, as soon as our troops leave Afghanistan things will be exactly as they were before. There's poison in our food and water, the education system in the U.S. is a joke, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, the middle class is getting screwed from both ends. There's so much wrong w/the world so sorry to say I'm not losing any sleep over fake goods from China, it's very, very very low on the list of issues that bother me.
 
Last edited:
There will always be counterfeits, as long as there's humans and we use money this is going to happen. If you want to get rid of greed and selfishness you'll need to get rid of humanity. There's slavery in the world, human trafficking, animal abuse, the Government is corrupt, the economy sucks and it's not going to get better any time soon. America is turning into a police state, our gov't spent 100's of billions of our tax money to fight 2 wars that were completely pointless and ineffective, as soon as our troops leave Afghanistan things will be exactly as they were before. There's poison in our food and water, the education system in the U.S. is a joke, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, the middle class is getting screwed from both ends. There's so much wrong w/the world so sorry to say I'm not losing any sleep over fake goods from China, it's very, very very low on the list of issues that bother me.
Thanks, Joe. The truth sucks, but there it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top