Discussion in 'Carothers Performance Knives' started by Lorien, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. oldmanwilly

    oldmanwilly Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 7, 2014
    Can I start paying for one in installments? Say, $50.00 a month? How's about an entire whitetail worth of sausage for barter?
  2. Box_Opener

    Box_Opener Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2018
    I love this, but you are killing me here! My wife is totally on to me.
    Organic556, jus_gus, evltcat and 2 others like this.
  3. moparsbob

    moparsbob Gold Member Gold Member

    May 6, 2014
  4. AntDog

    AntDog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 3, 2001
    Now that’s badass. :thumbsup: Subscribed to see the build.
    91bravo, jus_gus and Odog27 like this.
  5. Casinostocks

    Casinostocks Factotum Gold Member

    Mar 20, 2016
    Never owned a Khukri although a while back was thinking about getting one which was an Italian interpretation of this type of knife (I know Nathan, a sacrilegious thought; right?!). Needless to say that a LA designed Khukri (TBH honest, I don't like the CPKhuk moniker as it sounds dirty) with Nathan's own flavor, spin and production prowesses will be another CPK barn burner. Anyhoo, I don't know much about this knife other than the name so naturally keeping an eye on this thread.

    Interestingly, when I gazed upon the words Karda & Chakma in some earlier posts, something flashed inside my dome! I am not really certain about the etymology of any of these words and my GoogleFoo re-directed me to some other links in the early life of BF.com but the word Karda sounded familiar to me because strangely enough, I had learned some Sanskrit in a previous life! Sure enough, Karda relates to a cutting tool much like a knife but I have no idea if the word Chakma or Chakmakh has the same sorta roots, although it seems that way with these tools originally emanating from the Central Asian regions.
    abbydaddy, jus_gus, Nystagmus and 5 others like this.
  6. bluemax_1

    bluemax_1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 17, 2014
    Yeah, I wasn't really sure if it was the angle/perspective of the photo or not.

    A D3V kukri definitely sounds like fun! I've mentioned it before, but over the years of trying out different types of Large Camp Knives, I actually carried one of my dad's kukris for a while.

    Their chopping ability tends to be significantly better than average, but for other common camp tasks, they are a little more awkward than a simple ~10" LCK, and I wasn't a fan of the traditional chakma and karda (hence why the MC is now my LCK of choice, and my Goldilocks CPK).

    I'll still probably be in for a LA-CPK Kukri though.
  7. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    chakmak is an edge steel/burnisher. Traditional khukuris are very soft compared to what can be produced today. The chakmak was left hard, (probably not tempered, or maybe tempered a lot less) and you can use it to straighten rolls and dings in the edge. The karda is a tiny knife, and my guess is they got tinier and tinier over time and that their inclusion in today's khukuris is a nod to tradition as much as it is a question of utility. Things like Swiss Army knives exist now, and if you want a package that would do it all, just get your sheath maker to include a pocket for whatever useful little knife you like.

    there are a few places I've diverged from tradition wrt the design, one is the exclusion of the cho. They make sense and I like them but considering the hardness of the blade, there won't be much sharpening happening in that area. Additionally, that section of edge is less used and has an obtuse bevel geometry. Why put a stress riser there for no reason?

    More fundamentally, this will have a full tang. Traditionally, khuks are made using a rat tail tang that's peined over a brass buttcap, with a bolster at the front which is very similar in construction to a habaki which you'd find on some Japanese blades. The reason for the rat tail probably has as much to do with the availability of steel as it does with balancing the knife overall.

    Every traditional khukuri I've seen exhibits chirra, which are large concave sections on the blade. Again, these probably were initially the product of having very little steel to work with. In order to get the dimensions required to remove a head or limb in one chop, while maintaining enough strength and stiffness to do it again and again, squishing the steel around and leaving ridges in between relatively thin sections was the way to go. Today, you see a lot of fullering. It's easier to do than in the past and people like the look of it. Traditionally, adding chirra sections was an indication of the skill of the bladesmith. This khukuri will exhibit chirra, but only for the purposes of creating favourable bevel geometry and increasing maneuverability.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  8. jus_gus

    jus_gus Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    Looking forward to seeing it’s development. :thumbsup::)
    ironwagon, woodysone, Odog27 and 3 others like this.
  9. Panthera tigris

    Panthera tigris Street Samurai Gold Member

    Apr 21, 2012
    Differential heat treat on this one?

    I've always respected the way the master kami and his apprentices in nepal will use a bed of charcoal and a pot of water to pull off just the right tempering and come to a perfect product.

    Respecting the strength of the CPK process and your design, I hope some elements can be preserved because a khukuri is so much more than a knife. Do your thing and keep Nepalese spirit in mind!
  10. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    A2 is a air hardening steel so no differential hardening on this guy. The CPK will feature CPM 3V, I assume, with the Delta protocol. I'd bet money that you could chop at least 1/4" into the edge of a traditional khukuri with a CPKhuk. I wouldn't do it, out of respect, but I just want to express the kind of performance advantage you should expect from this thing.

    Differential hardening is required in Nepal, where these are made in a more or less traditional procedure, due to the method itself and the tools at hand. A lot of the makers there don't have the luxury of 2x72 variable speed grinders and heat treat ovens. I find it amazing how they pump out these consistently beautiful khukuris working in their bare feet, inside a tin shack, with a hole filled with charcoal and a teapot while a guy with all the best tools may not be able to make anything that compares even once in his life.

    The khukuri is my favourite style, and I love reading about the history and all the speculation and mythology about it. To the present, these edged weapons are still deployed among professional soldiers. I'm giving nods to certain traditions surrounding the general structure of the khukuri. Having had dozens and dozens of khukuris pass through my hands, and about a dozen different types used over the years, there are some issues with the traditional approach that will not be issues with this version. Also, I have to be sensitive to CPK's unique but spartan styling and not sacrifice performance for flair or nostalgia.

    There is no tool that performs better for its weight for what I specialize in than the khukuri. The tremendous shearing action of a perfect strike always puts a smile on my face. I think of the mechanical advantage produced by the dropped forward edge kind of like how an atlatl works. It's a delicate balance dropping that edge- if things are in the wrong place and/or the weight is not distributed well, you'll have a khuk that will deliver so much torque under an oblique hit that you could hurt yourself.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  11. Box_Opener

    Box_Opener Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2018
    I always thought is was really cool how similar khukris and ancient Greek machaira are to each other. It feels like a tangible link to the silk road. But you have to figure, also, that like you say the chopping design works really well with the less pure metals of the era. I wonder where the design first started and which way it spread? And how fast?
    ironwagon, Mike157, BIGDORK and 3 others like this.
  12. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    Alexander the Macedonian spent some time in the region. I can't help but think that back in those times, civilized people the world over couldn't help but intermingle, especially during times of plenty. The dynamic of the ebb and flow of cultural influence on arms and armour in various places is probably a pretty interesting field of study.
  13. Bigfattyt

    Bigfattyt Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 23, 2007
    I'm a fan of Khukri. I have owned 5. Two from HI, one unknown, a Busse KZII, and a cold steel magnum khukri machete.

    I'd argue that Lorien's design is plenty curved to be considered a khukri.

    I look forward to watching this thread.

    Box_Opener, Mike157, Odog27 and 3 others like this.
  14. argyle1812

    argyle1812 Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 6, 2016
    Oh man that looks good!
    jus_gus, Mike157 and Odog27 like this.
  15. co556guy


    Dec 13, 2011
    I've got a condor khukri made out of 1075.

    It's not the most refined blade I've got, but it's the best chopper I've got. Also the heaviest.

    The forward weight, big curved belly right at the forward weight point, and enough bend to get your wrist in the right position for power just works so well. You can land closer to the tip for speed on small diameter twigs, or in the belly for larger things.

    Personally, this looks like a good balance for that general concept. But as long as the weight is forward, the sweet spot has a curved edge to focus the energy on a small spot, and a good wrist position at impact.....I'd expect it to perform well.
  16. 1AbominAble1

    1AbominAble1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Well, I’ve been kicking myself for passing up a Busse KillaZilla at a screaming deal for years, this knife should cure that regret.

    A Kuk in D3V made by a collaborative effort from LA and the NC is something that I won’t pass up.
    duramax, jus_gus, vkp78 and 2 others like this.
  17. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005
    that Busse definitely got my attention when I first saw one, (online). At that time, I don't think there were any khukuris out there utilizing top shelf steel and made in N. America. There are a number of things I couldn't really get past wrt that knife, so I never sought one out, not that I could really afford one anyway, but I was always so curious as to how it would work. After having used so many Nepalese khukuris that broke, were uncomfortable, or whose steel's performance was meh, it's always been a dream of mine to develop a contemporary bush knife based on that proven shape.

    I did get that opportunity within the past couple of years. Salem Straub of Promethean Knives made a khukuri to my specifications. It's one of the most used, most solid performers in my arsenal of high performance knives, which consists almost entirely of CPKs. The material is 80CRV2, and it's the ang khola type

  18. tinfoil hat timmy

    tinfoil hat timmy Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2014
    I'll be watching
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  19. 1AbominAble1

    1AbominAble1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    That is a beauty!
    I’ve always had an interest in the style of knife but am usually turned off by the hard corner on the spine, aesthetically, it bothers me on most models. The Busse grabbed my attention because I had good results from using Infi and the lack of hard corner on the spine just made that knife absolutely beautiful- to me. I can understand how it would have the exact opposite effect on people that preferred the traditional style but I like what I like, even if it is a bit different:)

    I’m very curious to see how you do the spine on this project. I’m hoping for the smooth lines of the test team KZ but will still be in for one of it has the traditional corner.

    Very exciting idea either way. If your arm gets tired and you need a stand in to swing the test models, I’m only down in Michigan, not too far from you:)
    jus_gus, vkp78 and Odog27 like this.
  20. Lorien

    Lorien KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Dec 5, 2005

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