CPM 154 vs s30v

[mete]

S35VN is easier to sharpen than S30V as it has fewer V carbides .
There is a significant difference between 154CM and CPM154 .The CPM is well worth any extra cost. The S35VN is somewhat better than CPM154.
The problem with S30V was some difficulty in sharpening and big difficulty in getting a high polish .
We live in a nice time where the selection of good knives is great .

 

[marthinus]

I think CPM154 is a very underrated steel. It would be nice to see more manufacturers release popular models with the Steel heat treated accordingly. I'm very glad to see Kershaw has rereleased a Blur with CPM154, I'd love a Military or Para2 in that steel.

Very underrated mostly due to people's confusion of thinking that CPM 154 and 154CM are the same when they really aren't, same alloy content, but different processes, and that makes them completely different with different reactions and properties, 154CM is an ingot steel while CPM 154 is the PM version.

Also CPM 154 isn't as readily available in large quantities that the major manufacturers can use like 154CM is.

Well said.

CPM 154 is a well balanced steel. Lets look at it from a custom makers perspective.

From what I have read, most makers want a steel that can, take a high polish, ground thin, corrosion resistant and give the customer a steel that is balanced without breaking the bank.

CPM154/RWL-34 makes sense for me in that aspect.

Here are some test done on RWL-34

[video=youtube;07PP9EQQCcA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07PP9EQQCcA[/video]

[video=youtube;qgOLDW15y8M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgOLDW15y8M[/video]

The interesting thing about RWL-34 and Erasteel is Damasteel. A mixture of RWL-34 and PMC27 (similar to AEB-L), so you get a steel with great patterns and it is a steel for use and not just looks.

S35VN seems good, but I am still some time away from affording a knife with it. However, from what I have read and discussed with a metallurgist it seems I will be happy with S35VN for my uses since I prefer CPM154/RWL-34

 

[Ankerson]

If you can get a CPM 154 blade at 60-62 Rc and ground to about 0.015 it will outperform S30V by a few hundred %. At that hardness I don't know if I would call it easy to sharpen though.

It would depend on the knives in question really, both at that thickness, both at optimal hardness CPM S30V and CPM 154 would be interchangeable, but then that's in customs ground thin with an optimal HT.

CPM 154 really has the advantage here in that it can be taken to 63 HRC while CPM S30V only to 61 HRC so with a possible 2 point difference in favor of CPM 154.

In production blades, well, not too many in CPM 154, but in S30V there are plenty.

 

[Ankerson]

S35VN is easier to sharpen than S30V as it has fewer V carbides .
There is a significant difference between 154CM and CPM154 .The CPM is well worth any extra cost. The S35VN is somewhat better than CPM154.
The problem with S30V was some difficulty in sharpening and big difficulty in getting a high polish .
We live in a nice time where the selection of good knives is great .

Personally I would choose CPM 154 over either S30V or S35VN given the choice of those 3 steels, and I have more than once in Customs.

 

[The Mastiff]

Personally I would choose CPM 154 over either S30V or S35VN given the choice of those 3 steels, and I have more than once in Customs.

I do, and have as well. The others are excellent steels and not to be discounted but I just prefer CPM 154. In my case it's the edges it takes, and the higher (slightly) hardness which seems to make a bigger difference than most would think.

It actually has a higher carbide fraction than S30V but it seems to not make a difference in my uses for edges and toughness. It's theoretical only the way I use them, but I don't really ever push anything to it's limits. If I need substantially more toughness or wear resistance I have plenty of other choices to make that enhance these attributes much more in suitable tools for most jobs I'm gonna take on.

Joe

 

[Ankerson]

I do, and have as well. The others are excellent steels and not to be discounted but I just prefer CPM 154. In my case it's the edges it takes, and the higher (slightly) hardness which seems to make a bigger difference than most would think.

It actually has a higher carbide fraction than S30V but it seems to not make a difference in my uses for edges and toughness. It's theoretical only the way I use them, but I don't really ever push anything to it's limits. If I need substantially more toughness or wear resistance I have plenty of other choices to make that enhance these attributes much more in suitable tools for most jobs I'm gonna take on.

Joe

That does make a difference, that 1-3 HRC increase in hardness over S30V is larger than some will realise.

For the most part CPM 154 has been limited to the Custom makers with a few limited type production models here and there.

 

[Ankerson]

Not a Materials Science Engineer, but the differences seem to be in their properties as they both hold a good edge for quite some time. I own a BM 707 and Spyderco Sage in the aforementioned steels and love both in terms of edge retention.

You might want to change your title to CPM 154

The BM is 154CM, not CPM 154..

 

[james terrio]

CPM 154 is a well balanced steel. Lets look at it from a custom makers perspective.

From what I have read, most makers want a steel that can, take a high polish, ground thin, corrosion resistant and give the customer a steel that is balanced without breaking the bank.

I concur. I like lots of different steels, and I'm always open to learning about and working with more. But CPM-154 is my go-to/standard for stainless.

I think it's also important to note that for a maker, CPM-154 is very easy to sell. It's earned a great reputation over a period of many years, with a history of consistent high quality and excellent, reliable HT protocols.

 

[Ankerson]

I concur. I like lots of different steels, and I'm always open to learning about and working with more. But CPM-154 is my go-to/standard for stainless.

I think it's also important to note that for a maker, CPM-154 is very easy to sell. It's earned a great reputation over a period of many years, with a history of consistent high quality and excellent, reliable HT protocols.

CPM 154 was developed for the custom makers because they had problems working with S30V, so Crucible brought out CPM 154 that was easier to work with.

What they didn't realise is how good CPM 154 would be, it's much better than 154CM.

 

[james terrio]

What they didn't realise is how good CPM 154 would be, it's much better than 154CM.

And 154CM was pretty good to start with. We're so spoiled!

 

[Ankerson]

And 154CM was pretty good to start with. We're so spoiled!

In Customs 154CM can be a great steel for kitchen knives, fillet knives and skinning knives.

But CPM 154 is a step up from 154CM.

 

[JuJu-]

I think CPM154 is a very underrated steel. It would be nice to see more manufacturers release popular models with the Steel heat treated accordingly. I'm very glad to see Kershaw has rereleased a Blur with CPM154, I'd love a Military or Para2 in that steel.

The carbon fiber, green, and purple spider web blurs are actually the 3rd coming of the cpm 154 blurs. There was the olive handle stone wash blur, and then the burnt orange stonewash blade version preceding them. 2008 if I remember correctly, all limited runs though.

I would like to see it on more blades myself. I am liking it better than s30v personally

 

[BobSig]

After all the hype I heard, I bought several S30V knives, I was slightly dissappointed. Id like to find a comparable folder in CPM154, all the ones I currently have are LE and I dont want to use them. Maybe I should get a second CF Blur to use.

After reading through this tread Id really like to get a user in CPM154 and see how it does. Thanks for all that info guys.

 

[RevDevil]

The carbon fiber, green, and purple spider web blurs are actually the 3rd coming of the cpm 154 blurs. There was the olive handle stone wash blur, and then the burnt orange stonewash blade version preceding them. 2008 if I remember correctly, all limited runs though.

I would like to see it on more blades myself. I am liking it better than s30v personally

Yep, it's why I said rereleased. Kershaw has done a fine job with CPM154, it's impressive given the pricepoint of the knives. Also, I would love, love, love a Shallot in CPM154.

 

[Zookie]

My personal favorite steel is CPM 154. I've come to love it after jumping into the custom game and seeing large amounts of makers using it.

Its been plenty tough and hold a killer edge for plenty longer than most.

 

[rhswanson]

I would choose the CPM 154 over S30V

 

[lambertiana]

You are thinking about 154CM, it's NOT the same steel.

Quite the contrary - I am fully aware of the difference between 154CM and CPM154. I am also familiar with many production knives with 154CM. But you did not answer my question - what production (not custom, I can't afford them) knives offer CPM154 at 61-62 Rc? Everyone is talking about how great it is at that hardness, so where can I find some that I can afford?

 

[JuJu-]

Yep, it's why I said rereleased. Kershaw has done a fine job with CPM154, it's impressive given the pricepoint of the knives. Also, I would love, love, love a Shallot in CPM154.

I agree with the shallot! It was my perfect knife with size and shape of blade for years. I really would like to see one or two more models regularly run with it, by them.

 

[KDUJ]

Quite the contrary - I am fully aware of the difference between 154CM and CPM154. I am also familiar with many production knives with 154CM. But you did not answer my question - what production (not custom, I can't afford them) knives offer CPM154 at 61-62 Rc? Everyone is talking about how great it is at that hardness, so where can I find some that I can afford?

I don’t think any production knife is made with CPM 154 at 61-62 RHC. In general most production knives are at a lower RHC than customs to make it easier for customers to sharpen their knife and a little less wear and tear on the machining equipment.

 

[Ankerson]

Quite the contrary - I am fully aware of the difference between 154CM and CPM154. I am also familiar with many production knives with 154CM. But you did not answer my question - what production (not custom, I can't afford them) knives offer CPM154 at 61-62 Rc? Everyone is talking about how great it is at that hardness, so where can I find some that I can afford?

There aren't any and never have been, customs only.