Cpm 154

I've done several blades with it. I have not done any cutting tests so I will only speak to what I have observed. I have read the Crucible spec sheets and it outperforms 154CM by a good margin.
CPM154 grinds easier than ATS34 and 154CM as it is dead soft when it comes. ATS34 often has hard spots, 154CM not as much, but they are still there. CPM154 does not have any blotchy look to it. I gave up on ATS34 3 years ago due to a blotchy look. Inclusions are very rare.
CPM154 finishes much like RWL-34, maybe better, with an amazing mirror finish. Since a blade blank is $10 to $15 or so in 154CM, a couple more bucks for CPM154 is a no brainer.
 
Darrel Ralph said:
I love it!
It is great steel!
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Darrell, what about side by side performances of CPM154 Vs S30V as far as stain resistance, toughness and edge holding are concerned?

Thanks
 
Finish,
I can mirror finish this steel. S30v and 154cm.. are better looking at 400-600 finish max.
This is because of the make up.
The cpm154 is cleaner also. It is very consistant in heat treat!

I know ths is another blurb but knifekits.com just put both of them on the site for sale.
We have them p ground also.
They are expensive but easy to work. I have found that the scale on them is freakin tough! P grinding them makes for easier working.
 
Darrel Ralph said:
Finish,
I can mirror finish this steel. S30v and 154cm.. are better looking at 400-600 finish max.
This is because of the make up.
The cpm154 is cleaner also. It is very consistant in heat treat!

I know ths is another blurb but knifekits.com just put both of them on the site for sale.
We have them p ground also.
They are expensive but easy to work. I have found that the scale on them is freakin tough! P grinding them makes for easier working.
Click to expand...

Thanks Darrel
 
I had a visit from Kerrie Kengor,the rep from Crucible Steel Monday.Nice lady.She is going to be getting some technical info for me on the CPM 154.What she had so far from the lab boys is that it works and Heat Treats the same as the old stuff.The polish is better,and as far as knives go,the edge should be better.
We discussed the nomenclature,which is still confusing.Sometimes it is labeled CPM154CM others CPM154.The older,non-particle process ,steel is still 154CM.She thinks they will start using CPM154 as the new name.
I am working with Crucible on a test project to do a comparison on O-1 vs CPM154 vs CPM125V.(cheap and easy vs more expensive,but better vs way pricey,but superb) The results will be released in an article for one of the magazines,and ,of course,here on the BF.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
I had a visit from Kerrie Kengor,the rep from Crucible Steel Monday.Nice lady.She is going to be getting some technical info for me on the CPM 154.What she had so far from the lab boys is that it works and Heat Treats the same as the old stuff.The polish is better,and as far as knives go,the edge should be better.
We discussed the nomenclature,which is still confusing.Sometimes it is labeled CPM154CM others CPM154.The older,non-particle process ,steel is still 154CM.She thinks they will start using CPM154 as the new name.
I am working with Crucible on a test project to do a comparison on O-1 vs CPM154 vs CPM125V.(cheap and easy vs more expensive,but better vs way pricey,but superb) The results will be released in an article for one of the magazines,and ,of course,here on the BF.
Stacy
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From the perspective of a business man, tell her to name it " knife max" or "super blade 1000"
Busse calls his iron INFI.. smart guy ;)
BTW.. as you know, knife steel is chump change compared to the final product so using the Best is not an issue....shouldn't be anyhoo...
Don't tell that to Chuckie Buckie though.. :o
 
@bladsmth: I can't wait for your article. Have you got any report about toughness as compared to S30V at comparable hardness?
 
Gringogunsmith said:
From the perspective of a business man, tell her to name it " knife max" or "super blade 1000"
Busse calls his iron INFI.. smart guy ;)
Click to expand...

I agree,
Crucible has made this mistake before with 420v now being s90v.
I talked to Scott in Texas several time about this issue.
As you can see mistakes in naming steel is greater than thou!
The edge holding is not quite as good as S30v but the consistency, pit resistance and polish is in my findings.
The other plus was the type of edge that can be had for the average user.
It is much more carbon edge like. Sharp like razor grasshopper!
 
Darrel has it right on the toughness.CPM154 will be a little less tough than S30V.The difference may be too small to detect for most uses.I have two sheets of CPM154 being laser cut right now (28 blades).I plan on taking careful notes on the grinding and polishing characteristics.
Stacy
 
Stacy, how big is a "sheet"? Also is it 3/16th's"? Also, of course, how expensive? You guys have really hatched up something interesting here.
 
The sheets I purchased from Crucible were 12X24.One was .100 and one was .135. The sheet stock is about 24" wide.They will shear any length up to 80" long.You are charged by weight this way.I don't remember exactly what I paid,but I think it was around $12-13 per pound.Total weight of both sheets was 20 or 21 pounds.Laser cutting of the blades will run about $220.I have D'Alton Holder do my HT for me (with cryo).I personally think no one does high end stainless better than D. Holder.In large batches it runs around $5-6 per blade.I buy my wood in large pieces and cut the best areas out (I sell the rest) .I have Mike Ludderman at WSSI do the stabilizing in 50 to 100 pound batches.I figure I end up having about $7-8 in a select handle block ( when I use micarta and such,I buy whole sheets and cut my own scales - much cheaper than buying scale sets!).So, with shipping and all I have around $35 per blade.Add the cost of belts,rivets,epoxy, a simple leather blade cover and a custom padded case with my logo on the tag (from Rick Frigault) - you get a final cost figure of maybe $45 each.This batch of knives are all chef's knives and fillet knives.I will get from $150 to $200 each for them when done.I get more time working on the blades and less time cutting blanks this way.I could do it all myself and make half as many knives (or less),but the profit is in the workmanship,not the materials and services.Time is money,and a wise man pays someone else who can do part of it faster,better, and cheaper.The other advantage to having the blanks laser cut is repeatability.I can make the same knife two years from now and it will be the same dimensions.You will be hard pressed to saw it out and profile it by hand and get that accuracy.I wish Crucible had a laser cutting department,but they don't.That is why I used Admiral for all my ATS-34.I would order five blades each of ten to twenty of my patterns that they have stored in their computer .The final blanks are shipped one time and all the charges are low when done in bulk.Last batch I had done by Admiral was $1600 for everything (steel,cutting,shipping) to cut 130 blades,ranging from paring knives to BIG chef's knives.
Stacy
 
Tru-grit has only 5/32 x 2, but it is $12.00 per foot. That sounds pretty cheap.

That is the same stuff, isn't it? Thanks.

Gerry Hamrick
Snohomish, WA
 
That works out to $11.42 a pound.
According to Tru-Grits site the steel is listed as 154CPM.I guess that is the same as CPM154.(this is exactly the problem with the older steel being called 154CM) If it is CPM154,then it is a good price.
To get a comparison,Admiral sells that size ATS-34 for $13.83 a foot.
Stacy
 
Tru-Grit has 5/32" x 2" at 12.00 a foot. That sounds cheap. Is this the same stuff?

Gerry Hamrick
Snohomish, WA
 
I just bought two 3/16 x 1.5 x 36 flat ground sticks from Crucible- cost was $39.95 each.
Very nice people. Ordered from the Charlotte NC branch. Since I insisted on saw cut to width (instead of sheared), it was drop shipped from Dallas.

After getting frustrated with 154CM's graininess, I'm very excited to try this varient. And yes, it should have a noticably higher wear rating due to the finer grain and the dose of vanadium.

First thing learned: slow down the vertical bandsaw... this stuff work hardens at the drop of a hat. I was able to get five blanks out of the first 36" piece, but I've got to learn to be more patient. You can't just rip thru this stuff.

I talked to Richard Bridwell (my heat treater and advisor in Taylors SC), and he says to run the same heat treat you're using on 154CM.

BTW, I've got two sticks of 1095, cold rolled finish. 3/16 x 1.5 x 18.. both were shear cut to width. Ordered from Jantz/Koval. I'll sell or trade.
 
Steve Hayden said:
RWL 34 also has a small amount of Vanadium and is a powder metal process steel.

154 CM was developed by Crucible for jet engine turbine fans to have good "red" hardness from the Mo content. They called it 440 Mod originally, I believe. ATS 34 was Hitachi's version.

CPM 154 is different, due to the Crucible powder metal process. The article did not admit that there was any V added to the mix, but Crucible has been secretive about composition of their steels in the past. They have not published any Nitrogen content figures for S30V yet, but it is widely known (rumored?) to be one of the things that makes it so good for a blade steel.
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According to this steel chart from Alpha Knife Supply http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/zdata-bladesteel.htm S30V has 0.2% nitrogen.
 
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