Cpm-189?

[wongKI]

Not to mention, a lot of us don't have the means and opportunity to own such a large range of different steels. Spyderco's Mule program helped quite a lot, but when it comes to it, you're one of a very few who can actually do a test like this.

 

[Larrin]

:foot: Sorry. Didn't realize it was too close in toughness.

IIRC, you mentioned niobium adds hardness to steel without hanging around grain boundaries. Is that addled memory anywhere near correct? The only other thing that comes to mind is that guy in PacNor who smelts alloys with thermite and got his niobium from belly-button rings.

He who shall not be named also once mentioned an alloy called F2. Basically, he said it was like M2 in terms of properties knifeknuts may want, but lacked the high-temp hardness and the higher heat-treating temps of M2. Theorycraft to be sure, but so tempting.

What would a niobium vanadium carbide alloy with 8% carbide volume bring to the table? My favorite stainless is AEB-L/13C26 (sorry Crucible ) - how would it stack up against that steel?

I don't believe I said that it contributed to hardness, unless I was referring to hot hardness. Maybe you're combining statements about Nitrogen and Niobium. Niobium does, however, form very hard carbides, which are not usually on the grain boundaries. This means that it isn't as detrimental to toughness as some other carbides. The carbide size is further reduced by using multiple carbide types with S35VN, e.g. 15% vanadium carbide will have a larger average carbide size and max carbide size than a steel with 7.5% vanadium carbide and 7.5% niobium carbide. Niobium is particularly reactive as well so it usually frees up some chromium for corrosion resistance. There is probably still some chromium carbide in S35VN, though.

F2 is a simple carbon steel with a high percentage of tungsten. Very wear resistant but low in toughness, and low in availability. I believe Roman Landes has produced some knives out of it. It is included in his charts of steels in the back of his book. This is a micrograph of it here: http://img232.imageshack.us/i/bluesupercl8.jpg/ Roman says it has the highest combination of edge stability and wear resistance. However, I believe Roman tends to favor carbon steels as far as edge stability goes, since that carbide structure is as ugly as many stainless steels. Blue Super is another carbon steel with high tungsten that is available in many more knives.

I believe that a stainless steel with approximately 8% carbide volume (there is some leeway there) could offer a very good all-arounder. Good wear resistance, toughness, edge stability, and corrosion resistance. People that like CPM-M4 would probably be impressed with such a steel. For other comparisons, 3V has around 5% carbide volume, Vanadis 4 Extra has around 9%. It would be much closer to the "stainless-3V" that S30V was initially promised to be, though not quite. Some higher carbide volume comparisons would be 154CM with 17.5% and S30V with 14.5%.

 

[nozh2002]

You have done a lot of work. The problem is, it isn't enough. You retested one knife, and got drastically different results by your scale of measurement. You also changed your test procedure and equipment, and are reporting with a different force measurement. You only tested one knife in 440XH, and have already declared it the best and told Sal Glesser that he needed to use it in more knives or risk being left behind.

I really did consider mimicking your tests to add data points, but I can't. My 1200 grit diamond plate is a 6x2 with polycrystalline diamonds, my strop is loaded with both chromium oxide and diamond powder. I can not say if my edge finish will match yours from the outset. I live in a different part of the country, and would be cutting completely different hanks of rope. I cannot say the rope will be in the same condition and therefore have the same effect on the edge. I will not match your cutting stroke exactly. The same you, cutting with the same knife, using the same technique, got two sets of results, 5th and 16th place overall. What value would my numbers add? How much value can we place on your results before you retested the Yuna? How necessary is it for you to test the Yuna again to look for another change? How necessary is it for you to retest every knife?

You have cut a lot more rope & string for the sake of measurement than probably everyone else on the forum, outside of possibly a few makers. That doesn't mean Crucible should worry about you waiting 4 years for a new alloy, or that Spyderco should listen because of your sample size of 1.

Well, there is no other tests!

One more time - there is no other tests!

What I did is only data available, there is no other test results except some results Sal sent to Phil - which is numbers without any explanation or anything and Sal refuse to talk about it.

So like you or not this is only what we have. I agree - I prefer to have much more data, but you have some excuse, someone else has another excuse etc. ect.

In result this is only data available.

Now you are telling me - I should go and do more tests for you. Sorry, NO! I am satisfied with my data. I use it for my purchases. I do not care about all theories someone can build around on what else may affect results or whatever. This is hard work and I already damage my wrist, so if you need more data - go do it yourself! I will love to see your results, even if it will be different then mine, but show me results even for different part of the country or whatever.

Until then - I have test results and nobody else has (or has will to disclose). You may not like it - but you do not have your results.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[bubblewhip]

Well, there is no other tests!

One more time - there is no other tests!

What I did is only data available, there is no other test results except some results Sal sent to Phil - which is numbers without any explanation or anything and Sal refuse to talk about it.

So like you or not this is only what we have. I agree - I prefer to have much more data, but you have some excuse, someone else has another excuse etc. ect.

In result this is only data available.

Now you are telling me - I should go and do more tests for you. Sorry, NO! I am satisfied with my data. I use it for my purchases. I do not care about all theories someone can build around on what else may affect results or whatever. This is hard work and I already damage my wrist, so if you need more data - go do it yourself! I will love to see your results, even if it will be different then mine, but show me results even for different part of the country or whatever.

Until then - I have test results and nobody else has (or has will to disclose). You may not like it - but you do not have your results.

Thanks, Vassili.

Then go fly in your ignorance if your not willing to listen. But don't shove down our throats and asking manufactures to rudely to demand ZDP because of your household tests, and putting down steel companies like crucible because your "tests" show they aren't up to your level. And don't go try correcting everyone that steels like S90V are not as good as other steels because of your "tests" It's misleading, it's not proven to a level of acceptable accuracy for most of us, and it's not backed by any level of credibility.

We may not exactly have the data for all the comparisons of all the knives you listed, but CATRA and CHARPY sure do, and steel companies pay big bucks to prove that their steels are up to task with situations far more accurate and far more controlled than your tests ever would be.

 

[Gator97]

Well, there is no other tests!

One more time - there is no other tests!

...

In result this is only data available.

Yeah, there are no other tests, other than your own that you would recognize.

So like you or not this is only what we have.

Why do you speak in plural? Those are the only results you have, since you refuse everything else. What you like and not, is your business, but leave the rest of the guys to decide what they have and do not.

 

[Leadfoot2]

Then go fly in your ignorance if your not willing to listen. But don't shove down our throats and asking manufactures to rudely to demand ZDP because of your household tests, and putting down steel companies like crucible because your "tests" show they aren't up to your level. And don't go try correcting everyone that steels like S90V are not as good as other steels because of your "tests" It's misleading, it's not proven to a level of acceptable accuracy for most of us, and it's not backed by any level of credibility.

We may not exactly have the data for all the comparisons of all the knives you listed, but CATRA and CHARPY sure do, and steel companies pay big bucks to prove that their steels are up to task with situations far more accurate and far more controlled than your tests ever would be.

Beautifully said, thank you

Leadfoot

 

[DennisStrickland]

feedback is great but i'm dismayed that members have to get so rude to each other. all tests have some value & many require tons of work. i guess the best any of us can do is to give our tests w/o conclusions.many times i have read tests & the replys to same indicated the readers completely misinterpreted what the tests validated. i guess i'm saying the best we can do is show our tests & give no conclusions.members are going to interpret the tests from their own subjectivity leading to many conclusions from any single test. certainly all of us can see that most tests can yield only a few valid conclusions which means that lots of erroneous conclusions are going to be voiced . some with venomous retort. whatever--this is a forum & everyone should state their opinion.i just wish rudeness was eliminated.thanks dennis

 

[singularity35]

feedback is great but i'm dismayed that members have to get so rude to each other. all tests have some value & many require tons of work. i guess the best any of us can do is to give our tests w/o conclusions.many times i have read tests & the replys to same indicated the readers completely misinterpreted what the tests validated. i guess i'm saying the best we can do is show our tests & give no conclusions.members are going to interpret the tests from their own subjectivity leading to many conclusions from any single test. certainly all of us can see that most tests can yield only a few valid conclusions which means that lots of erroneous conclusions are going to be voiced . some with venomous retort. whatever--this is a forum & everyone should state their opinion.i just wish rudeness was eliminated.thanks dennis

Plus 1000!