CPM-M4 vs CTS-20CP/CPM-S90V

My unscientific but real life experiences have produced spotting on CPM-D2 and CPM-M4 at about the same rate. I have yet to see spotting or worse on ZDP-189 or on steels other than "traditional" carbon steels.


CrimsonTideShooter said:
D2 is close enough to the threshold of stainless that it pretty much IS stainless. It's not the rust monster that people make it out to be. It's literally 1 % away form making the "satinless club."

And as it was pointed out here, no one actually knows the TRUE threshold for stainlessness. So, I (ME, alone!! My opinion!!) consider D2 a stainless steel, and I treat it as such. Never had any problems. And I live in a VERY humid environment.
Click to expand...
 
db said:
No Sal, I haven't had much corrosion on my ZDP. The knife I have isn't one of yours. I haven't done a side by side either. It is just my opinion based on general carrying and use. Truth is I've carried my D2 knives alot more than the ZDP and haven't had any corrosion issues with D2 at all. With the ZDP I'd say it was very minor just alittle spotting not really anything that concerned me. I just remember being a little surprised by it. I haven't had or use the ZDP in about a year. However, I do think that the finish on both the ZDP and the D2 knives were pretty close to the same as I put on a very shallow convex edge on all my knives. At the time I did sharpen everything the same way and to the same finish. At that time my finished edge was the Spyderco white ceramic bench hone. Yes I do convex with bench hones, it is easier to do than people think.
Click to expand...

Thanx for the input. Love that "real world testing". I guess we'll have to do a Q-fog comparison. Sounds like you are skilled at sharpening as well.

On topic, I've heard some feedback that there are diferences between S90V and 20CP. Shows that even with similar chemistry, there can be differences.

sal
 
I love my cts 20cp para but I think I like my xhp manix more. Xhp seems to hold super sharp edge longer and I like the way it cuts over the way 20cp does.it took me over two weeks to lose a shaving edge on my 20cp at work but the xhp usally loses it after a week give or take a day or two.I have yet to get my hands on s90 but boy have I tried,so i cant speak on the comparison of s90 and 20cp. I try to keep my spydies varied in lock and steels so I can taste all the flavors.
284049_134054976685631_100002433890009_209181_474741_n.jpg
also have pe h1 eh have some se h1 on way so we will see how I like that. I also have been carrying my super blue caly wiich reminds me alot of xhp. The way it cuts ,sharpens and holds an edge. I did carry my cousins bradley in m4 for a few days at the plant nursery. The steel held up nice but I hated the ergos so much I didn't want to carry it anymore after three days so I can't really speak on spydies m4 with too much knowledge. The burlap cutting I do at my job is too much fo vg10 delica to handle. To the op check ankersons manila rope cutting thread, there are alot of comparing steels conversations in that thread. What you wil find is everyone has there favorites . From research I've done and for what my uses for a folder are I would take cts20cp over m4, its tough enough for me in a edc folder and its wear resistance is that much better then m4. The fact that its stainless is just a plus.for the rusting issue,I have had some spotting on zdp but none since I started using flitz on my knives. My carry of cpm d2 is too minimal for an assessment of that steels corrosive resistance
 
Last edited:
spydusse said:
My carry of cpm d2 is too minimal for an assessment of that steels corrosive resistance
Click to expand...

Dozier says that CTS-XHP is like 440C on steroids. I believe he said it was more stainless than D2 as well. So if he's any authority and some think he is, you can compare CPM D2 with your favorable review of XHP, only a little less stainless maybe.
 
Last edited:
Cziv, Dozier compared XHP to 40CP ( 440C with powder process). This where he stated it ( XHP) was like 440C on steroids. This was in a tactical knives article, that months "steel bin". It is also quoted on the Carpenter CTS web page along with about a page or two from the article. Tactical knives article: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-knives/space-age-xhp-blasts-off/ and carpenter home page:http://www.cartech.com/whatsnew.aspx?id=3684

IMO, XHP is about the same as XHP.. Not much in the way of difference. I have some CPM D2 stock here, as well as numerous production knives in it. I have less in XHP, but to me they are pretty similar. Not too much difference at all. Users preference.

XHP does have about 4% more chrome, plus .35% nickel but other than that they are mostly the same. I guess the 4% chrome makes a ( not huge) difference but to me they are close enough to be interchangeable, with both being very good plus +.

Joe
 
I have owned several knives over the years in D2 and one in ZDP189. I peel and eat a lot of fruit especially apples. I usually wash and dry the knife shortly after peeling what ever fruit it happens to be and have never had any problems with D2 rusting or staining. On the other hand, the one ZDP knife I owned didn't rust but stained quickly turning from bright silver to a titanium gray color after peeling approx 4 or 5 apples.
 
Whatever xhp is similar to or like one thing I know is I like it more then 20cp.the way it cuts ,sharpens and holds that scary sharp edge longer then 20cp even though 20cp holds a shaving edge longer IME.I would choose 20cp over m4 though(in a folder). I think the op said he wanted some to make his own knives wich in that case I would think m4 would be alot easier to get as I have heard xhp is impossible to stock and s90 or 20cp are probably alot more expensive<that's all me guessing though from what I've heard on forums . I have never purchased steel for knife making
 
spydusse said:
Whatever xhp is similar to or like one thing I know is I like it more then 20cp.the way it cuts ,sharpens and holds that scary sharp edge longer then 20cp even though 20cp holds a shaving edge longer IME.I would choose 20cp over m4 though(in a folder). I think the op said he wanted some to make his own knives wich in that case I would think m4 would be alot easier to get as I have heard xhp is impossible to stock and s90 or 20cp are probably alot more expensive<that's all me guessing though from what I've heard on forums . I have never purchased steel for knife making
Click to expand...

XHP is an interesting steel, IMO not really much like anything else in the way it cuts while holding an edge.
 
Sal Glesser said:
On topic, I've heard some feedback that there are diferences between S90V and 20CP. Shows that even with similar chemistry, there can be differences.

sal
Click to expand...

I think it may have more to do with the manufacturing process of the 2 steels.

90V seems to be the more aggressive cutter while 20CP seems to take a finer edge, all of that and both seem to be about the same in wear resistance.
 
20CP probably has a bit of extra toughness due to the next generation PM technology, but yeah, wear resistance between them should be the same since even ingot cast vs PM versions of the same alloy also have equal wear resistance.
 
hardheart said:
20CP probably has a bit of extra toughness due to the next generation PM technology, but yeah, wear resistance between them should be the same since even ingot cast vs PM versions of the same alloy also have equal wear resistance.
Click to expand...

Tougher, yeah possibly since 20CP doesn't seem to develop that toothy aggressive working edge as fast as 90V does, or at least that's what I have seen.
 
The Mastiff said:
Cziv, Dozier compared XHP to 40CP ( 440C with powder process). This where he stated it ( XHP) was like 440C on steroids. This was in a tactical knives article, that months "steel bin". It is also quoted on the Carpenter CTS web page along with about a page or two from the article. Tactical knives article: http://www.tactical-life.com/online/tactical-knives/space-age-xhp-blasts-off/ and carpenter home page:http://www.cartech.com/whatsnew.aspx?id=3684

IMO, XHP is about the same as XHP.. Not much in the way of difference. I have some CPM D2 stock here, as well as numerous production knives in it. I have less in XHP, but to me they are pretty similar. Not too much difference at all. Users preference.

XHP does have about 4% more chrome, plus .35% nickel but other than that they are mostly the same. I guess the 4% chrome makes a ( not huge) difference but to me they are close enough to be interchangeable, with both being very good plus +.

Joe
Click to expand...

Post edited, thanks for the reminder, :)
 
M390 with a rockwell of 62 . It was a present for my girlfriend,she uses it in the kitchen. I think I used it to cut a bagel :D and a jack o lantern once.she took it to work the other day because she had to prep food for a catering event for the town 'matawan day". She said she diced four bags of onions , endless peppers,prepped a ton of chicken and tomatoes .I couldn't notice that it dulled at all from the last time I sharpened it . Here is some over the shoulder shots I took of her with it in use in our kitchen.
267297_134022470022215_100002433890009_208956_8266571_n.jpg
226083_134025793355216_100002433890009_208979_7752772_n.jpg
285416_134026010021861_100002433890009_208981_3657952_n.jpg
253483_112704548820674_100002433890009_124287_7260557_n.jpg
I plan on picking up a couple of the spyderco production south forks when they are released .one for me and one for her work
 
Last edited:
JNewell said:
My unscientific but real life experiences have produced spotting on CPM-D2 and CPM-M4 at about the same rate. I have yet to see spotting or worse on ZDP-189 or on steels other than "traditional" carbon steels.
Click to expand...

I have never had D2, M4, or ZDP corrode on me, not even as much as a spot.

Even though I live in a super humid environment I don't have problems with corrosion. I guess I am lucky. I have had 1095 rust a TINY bit on me, but nothing major.

I am glad about it though. I'd hate to be constantly battling oxidation.
 
Ankerson said:
Tougher, yeah possibly since 20CP doesn't seem to develop that toothy aggressive working edge as fast as 90V does, or at least that's what I have seen.
Click to expand...

So does 20CP seem to hold a razor edge longer than S90, while still holding it's edge just as long overall?


I need to retest my 20CP blades again. I really love the steel, but for me it hasn't done as well as S90V. The edge geometry on the two Para 2s that I tested were radically different though. Could be the issue. Thanks Jim.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
So does 20CP seem to hold a razor edge longer than S90, while still holding it's edge just as long overall?


I need to retest my 20CP blades again. I really love the steel, but for me it hasn't done as well as S90V. The edge geometry on the two Para 2s that I tested were radically different though. Could be the issue. Thanks Jim.
Click to expand...

No, that's not what I said. ;)

Would have to get into S110V at high hardness to really get something like that.
 
Thanx Spydusse,

Phil does great work. Looks like your girlfriend does good work as well.

sal
 
Yes they definitely both do. Im actually in the process of trying to put in another knife order with Mr. Wilson. No response back yet, fingers crossed he is still taking orders.im sure once that production south fork hits the shelves it will be impossible to get an order in. Elmax fixed with a slighlty thicker blade then the south fork around 3.5 ".edge retention similar to zdp and xhp. Toughness of elmax is awesome from what I hear.it will be extremly hard to rust. Almost sounds like its the be all end all steel for me ......for now anyway:D
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top