CPM-M4 Vs ELMAX

[hardheart]

DLC is a porous coating, which is why it doesn't prevent rust. But, it will also hang onto oil, so it helps slightly there.

Edge geometry has a bigger impact on overall cutting performance, but you can always alter the edge geometry on a knife while you can't change the steel. Badly ground M390 will lose to 440C, but then you just need to resharpen the M390 and it will come ahead in edge life. You can't do anything to the 440C to catch back up at that point. Steel is the most important thing because that is your starting point. Heat treats and grinds can be redone, but you aren't mixing in or taking out alloying components once the barstock leaves the mill.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

That's assuming the average end user knows enough to change the geometry and not ruin the knife and the heat treat, which strikes me as a pretty big assumption. And it's pretty rare to have a HT re-done. Usually once someone ruins the HT, they discover that by breaking the knife. So, for all practical purposes, if you didn't get a knife with a good HT and good geometry from the get-go, you're not likely to change that fact.

 

[hardheart]

Well, I'm thinking the average end user doesn't care about M4 vs Elmax. And the easiest way to change the geometry is to send it to a pro who offers regrinds. I also didn't mean a ruined heat treat, but more about bumping it up a few points like many have done for BM's M2 and earlier M4. Personally, I had M2, CPM154, and S110V reground by knifemakers, plus had an AUS8 blade replaced with 3V, and made a few knives of my own from power hacksaw blades and a belt sander (64-66 Rc M2) I didn't have any blades re-heat treated but Peter's did treat 16 blades for me for a test. It is a really good time for end users as far as having options.

 

[loonybin]

And if it fails, you get to try out the good 'ole costumer service test.

Which is top notch when it comes to Benchmade.

My experience with ZT Elmax wasn't impressed at all, the edge holding just noticable worse than Spyderco S30V. Not sure why people keep considered it as 'Super steel.. it does has cool name btw

Heat treat is major. If ZT is HTing their Elmax to a low number, then it wont' be that impressive.

I had a M4 Gold Class Grip for a couple months. I did really dig the knife but was underwhelmed by the steel. Oddly enough I thought it did not hold an edge much better than my S30V knives and was way easier than I expected to touch up. Which to me = not worth carrying non stainless.

Benchmade's early M4 was 58-60 Rc. They learned from that and now bump their heat treat to 63-64 Rc which is a major improvement. My 520bk-1101 has the lower heat treat M4, and I have rolled the edge on occasion. I wish they had figured out the heat treat before they made that knife...

 

[TotalDbag]

That's pretty much not true at all.

HT, blade geometry, and edge geometry all matter far more than what type of steel is used. 440A done well will cut very well, hold an edge very well, and outperform most of the usual crap you see. What type of steel is barely relevant. Heck, you can have a good knife made entirely from Ti.

There's no perfect steel. There are good ones for a variety of applications, and one thing I've noticed here is that you haven't mentioned what you expect from the blade. I didn't catch which BM you're looking at (Gold Class Grip?), but you're going to get a quality knife regardless, and in my estimation, the type of steel used shouldn't even be relevant, unless you're looking to try out another steel.

I've tried Elmax, but not CPM M4. I definitely prefer M390 to Elmax, any day, for a small knife, like a folder or an EDC fixed blade. Easy to sharpen, takes a great edge, and has excellent edge retention. Also is plenty tough for everyday purposes.

For choppers and other long blades, however, I'd take 1095, 5160, 52100, or 3V.

But ultimately, it's going to come down to what you want out of the knife. So many people make the mistake of buying for one characteristic, especially one as unimportant as steel type. If you're buying from a reputable company, the HT should be pretty darn good, and steel type will ultimately matter far less in terms of whether or not you like the knife than the design of the knife, ergos, geometry, fit and finish, and all the other features that make the knife a good fit (or not) for YOU. The upshot is that they spend tons of money looking for the perfect knife, and never find it, because they don't take the time to think about what they like about a knife or not, and they lose a lot of money because they buy stuff that they won't keep.

You do realize I was making a joke right. I meant that steel is everything, as in without the steel it's not a knife, it's just a handle.
Unless your using ceramics, or some other non metallic material.

 

[PatrickKnight]

That's pretty much not true at all.

HT, blade geometry, and edge geometry all matter far more than what type of steel is used. 440A done well will cut very well, hold an edge very well, and outperform most of the usual crap you see. What type of steel is barely relevant. Heck, you can have a good knife made entirely from Ti.

There's no perfect steel. There are good ones for a variety of applications, and one thing I've noticed here is that you haven't mentioned what you expect from the blade. I didn't catch which BM you're looking at (Gold Class Grip?), but you're going to get a quality knife regardless, and in my estimation, the type of steel used shouldn't even be relevant, unless you're looking to try out another steel.

I've tried Elmax, but not CPM M4. I definitely prefer M390 to Elmax, any day, for a small knife, like a folder or an EDC fixed blade. Easy to sharpen, takes a great edge, and has excellent edge retention. Also is plenty tough for everyday purposes.

For choppers and other long blades, however, I'd take 1095, 5160, 52100, or 3V.

But ultimately, it's going to come down to what you want out of the knife. So many people make the mistake of buying for one characteristic, especially one as unimportant as steel type. If you're buying from a reputable company, the HT should be pretty darn good, and steel type will ultimately matter far less in terms of whether or not you like the knife than the design of the knife, ergos, geometry, fit and finish, and all the other features that make the knife a good fit (or not) for YOU. The upshot is that they spend tons of money looking for the perfect knife, and never find it, because they don't take the time to think about what they like about a knife or not, and they lose a lot of money because they buy stuff that they won't keep.

This is pretty much the reason I can not justify a sprint run Para 2. Spydercos S30V is more than enough for anything I would ever need in a folder.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

You do realize I was making a joke right. I meant that steel is everything, as in without the steel it's not a knife, it's just a handle.
Unless your using ceramics, or some other non metallic material.

Nope, sorry, that didn't come across as a joke at all to me. And there are Ti knives, bronze, iron, copper, ceramic as you noted, etc, which don't contain steel at all. Heck, people have even made knives from stone (flint, obsidian, etc). So steel isn't a prerequisite at all.

And hardheart, that makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[TotalDbag]

Nope, sorry, that didn't come across as a joke at all to me. And there are Ti knives, bronze, iron, copper, ceramic as you noted, etc, which don't contain steel at all. Heck, people have even made knives from stone (flint, obsidian, etc). So steel isn't a prerequisite at all.

And hardheart, that makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, I'm sorry, that someone took your humor
And I'm well aware of materials used (past, and present) to make blades for knives/swords.

 

[hardheart]

No problem. Testing has shown me that geometry is the most important thing as it has massive influence on the way a knife cuts and for how long. Heat treat is critical because it is dependent on skill and equipment that very few people have. But I think steel is the best basic choice because you are stuck with it. As long as you go with a proven brand/maker the other aspects can or should be sorted out for you. The re-blade form AUS8 to 3V was the most expensive mod I've had done, and I think that makes sense, since that involved changing the steel, which also required new grinding and new heat treating.