CPM S30V vs BG-42 steel

R.W.,

Well yeah I recon so. The guys here were like those board room guys to me when I first started out and fact is a few here still seem to be to me. All that is good of course. My favorites or better I should say my heros are ones I pretty much keep private but the one I do tout is Mete. He is the one I follow without question.

Now, I will pull away from this thread because I see no more I can contribute to its basis (which BTW I remain by my original comments - data sheets and such). So let's get back to the thread meaning. I hope it continues. It is a good subject and worth all us viewing.

One last credit to you though. I have read certain things here and else where about how various men made there folder blades and I never could put it together why. One I remember reading about does all his machining and drilling after heat treat (very much akin to what you spoke of). Never could figure it properly. That hole distortion is - well a blind man could see that. It never dawned on me before but its so obvious. Its just a matter of how tolerant the specs are whether it matters but I can see where it could matter a big lot.

RL
 
rlinger said:
R.W.,

One I remember reading about does all his machining and drilling after heat treat (very much akin to what you spoke of). Never could figure it properly. That hole distortion is - well a blind man could see that. It never dawned on me before but its so obvious. Its just a matter of how tolerant the specs are whether it matters but I can see where it could matter a big lot.

RL
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while many things are easier one way
it makes for harder things the other way. for those that don't harden first under sizing and over sizing would be the answer ,
it's half a dozen of one and 6 of the other. (the way I see it) a many of
a folder are done either way..
one could argue if you mess up on the hardened blade,S30V :)
you've spent more for the goof. the one main thing is warping, if you don't warp it you won't have a problem. other than quenching will at the least shrink holes maybe on BG42 :confused:
so you account for it...
or that's what reamers are for right? see how I stayed on topic :p
 
Well, damn. Here I thought I could get thru this thead without disagreeing with RW. :)

I also feel that the average user can't tell the difference between those two steels. But then, I also feel that 440C got a bad rap.

I've done a few folders. Probably way up in the thousands, with about every steel you can mention. I've never had a problem with pivot holes or thumb button holes moving or causing any kind of problem. I profile the blade blanks before heat treating, but I don't do any hollow grinding before it. I also do my own heat treating.

Too many disadvantages and costs by doing holes and such after heat treat.
If it ever caused a problem, then I would relook it. Until then, I'll stick with the way that works for me.
 
Kit, do you set your lock faces and detents before HT. Thats where I was having my problems. It was Onion who got me going on doing stuff after HT, though I think Ken profiles and does his pivots before.
 
RW.
I rough in the lock face before I heat treat. I don't do the detent ball until the last step before sharpening.
My experience has taught me that unless you have a very rigid set up, like a solid vice on a mill, it's difficult to get a good clean hole drilled and reamed thru hardened steel. Carbide bits are notorious for "chatter" if you do it on a drill press holding it by hand. That and the price of carbide drill bits and reamers make it just not cost effective. I do use Hi Roc carbide bits for the detent hole in the blade.
 
Totally agree on the drill press thing. I did not even consider folders until I got my Baby Bridgeport. All of my dilling is now done on it so chatter and broken bits is pretty much a none issue.
 
I do almost everything to my folder blades post heat treat with the exception of a slightly undersized pivot hole that I ream with carbide after H/T.
I cut a ton of 5" or so lengths of blade steel I refer to as coupons .and send them out to Paul Bos for H/T . This way I can ensure flatness and perfect parallel . When I get these coupons back from H/T I run them in my Do All double lapping machine with a splatter of 800Grit clover compound and let them run untill they are clean.Then I put them away untill I need them to make a blade. I prefer doing it this way because I am unlimited in what I can build and because I know that my blades are flat and especially that each side of the blade is parallel with the other . I don't claim that this is the only way or the " proper" way of doing it, it is however my prefered way for the afore mentioned reasons. If I was as good looking and as talented as Kit .I might do it the way he does but I'm not. With reguard to knife steels I am staying away from this topic because the thousand other times I entered into this topic no headway was made nor was the conversation productive I'll save that discussion for RW . He has the energy .
I will say I still think 440-C is highly underestimated .BG-42 is very similar to 440-C in all respects and S30V will hold a better Medium sharp edge than either of the other two and is tougher than the other two if all the other variables are the same. More importantly than the grade of steel is the heat treat the edge geometries and grind geometries or this knife . As well as the design of the blade for the given task . When every issue is addressed with with the proper amount of knowledge, wisdom and care every thing comes together and the result is a knife worthy of praise .
Kit and RW it's your turn!
 
I thought I may have gotten the bar idea from you, but i wasn't sure. I was thinking that you might have profiled first. Its all so confussing :confused: :D .

I think I will let this one rest too. I had more energy a couple years ago then I do today.
 
KenOnion said:
More importantly than the grade of steel is the heat treat the edge geometries and grind geometries or this knife . As well as the design of the blade for the given task . When every issue is addressed with with the proper amount of knowledge, wisdom and care every thing comes together and the result is a knife worthy of praise .
Click to expand...


I totally agree... and that's just it, to do it "right" ultimately everything must come together in harmony. I have this theory that if i do everything right in the right order i will have the highest likelyhood of efficiently producing a quality product. It's that "doing the homework" thing. The general public hasn't got a CLUE to what it takes to make a "real" knife, much less a quality folder. I have made exactly ONE folder, count'em... 1... and i haven't even done the heat treat yet. And even though i have a working knife, and really struggled with getting all the various geometries just right, i will likely have to make another blade "done right" just to get it right. You guys have made THOUSANDS. I plan on making a few more than just one, "thousands" is a bit down the road for me. My hat is off to you all. You are true artists. You guys ROCK!

We may now be discussing, and even arguing, which steel is better and why and how to best use each, but the topic of this "discussion" has got to be one of the oldest and first topics ever discussed. Right after "Food, where food?" and "How get food?" soon came "Where get sharper, harder rock?"

It's amazing that the general public no longer really appreciates a well made knife, when knives have been so essential to mans survival and exsistence since the beginning.

Let us never get tired of discussing this fine old topic.
 
The lapper wasn't a big ticket item I think I paid 700.00 bucks for it . It just makes sence. I buy my steel surface ground and usually that means it has a 180-220 grit finnish . Most of us work our flat finnishes down on a disc sander and sure we get our sides flat but what about parallel with the other side ? It would be nearly impossable to maintain true parallel flatness on your folder blades and achieve the finnish you want any other way. I'm not saying my way is the only way, it's just my way. And one less thing to worry about when making a folder. If I grind my blade prior to H/T It is more difficult to know if my blade is true. Splitting hairs I know but one less thing to worry about.
 
I really need to see what a double lapping machine looks like. Does anyone have a link to a pic? I did a google and couldn't figure out whats what.
 
OK, so for small production runs, which would be better; a double lapping machine or a double disc grinder?

By small production I mean 50-500 pieces.
 
R.W.Clark said:
OK, so for small production runs, which would be better; a double lapping machine or a double disc grinder?

By small production I mean 50-500 pieces.
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depends on which one you own.
right now my grinder is better , the price was right.
If I were to do 50-500 pieces at a time, I would up grade very fast,
I'm not sure if I'd go with a Laper or a blanchard
like this one :D
http://www.steelsrv.com/largest-blanchard-grinder.html
I know I'm irritating..
 
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