CPM S30V vs M390

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I agree that M390 should perform very similar to S30V. It is a little cleaner, finer, and harder, which may make a difference in some cutting tasks (unless Crucible is continually upgrading their PM process, in which case the difference would be very little). I'll never forget what we learned from S60V though. Even at 56Rc that stuff kicked butt. It probably would not make a good whittling knife, but in general use wear resistance seems to trump edge stability (hardness). Having both is great, which is why I personally will take M390 over S30V any day, or better yet CPM M-4, or ZDP-189.
 
nozh2002 said:
It looks like knife manufacturers trying new marketing approach. Instead of having one supersteel they now have super steel per manufacturer. BM pushing M390 (European), Kershaw pushing for Elmax (European), I was hoping that Spyderco will push for made in US CTS-XHP, but that company is hard to understand lately.

It is interesting way to do business everyone has it's own super steel. Unfortunately M390 and Elmax does not really perform as supersteel and both have reputation based on hype not on real performance - M390 - 21st place, Elmax - 30th place (funny but Kershqw made composite knife with Elmax on the edge and CPM D2 on spine while CPM D2 from same Kershaw is on 12th place).

Again we have manufacturers focused on marketing hype rather then on performance. Same as it was when they push replacement of CPM S60V by way less performed CPM S30V. I was hoping that everybody will jump on CTS-XHP because it is real deal, not very expensive and made in US, but looks like this is not major focus for industry.

Well, one more disappointment from knife industry among many others...

So back to original question - on my test M390 is same as CPM S30V and so no reason to switch to it from CPM S30V. CTS-XHP is steel to look for (as well as well known, good old ZDP-189).

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. Hierer making his knives with CTS-XHP on regular basis, but other then that nobody else to my knowledge.
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Have you heard about the Vanax 75 Kershaw is putting in the Tilt? Looks to be good stuff. A Nitrogen alloy with 9% Vanadium. Super corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Hopefully it becomes more of a trend than S110V did.

And yeah, Elmax never impressed me either.
 
Outside of nozh2002 (not disagreeing with him), is everyone in agreement that m390 is better than s30v in all the aspects that the original poster is asking or just edge retention?

Color me confused.

Rich
 
Joshua J. said:
Have you heard about the Vanax 75 Kershaw is putting in the Tilt? Looks to be good stuff. A Nitrogen alloy with 9% Vanadium. Super corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Hopefully it becomes more of a trend than S110V did.

And yeah, Elmax never impressed me either.
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Never heart of that. Will give it a try when it became availabe. Do you know composition.

But high wear resistance as well as composition itself does not really directly impact performance. I have knife with T1 steel which is first HS steel initially invented by Crucible 100 years ago.

C=0.65–0.80, Cr=3.75–4.00, W=17.25–18.75 !!!, V=0.9–1.3 Mn=0.1–0.4 Ph=0.2–0.4

But it did not perform as good as it is exotic.

So only use can tell.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
It looks like knife manufacturers trying new marketing approach. Instead of having one supersteel they now have super steel per manufacturer.
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As opposed to the ideal world, where every maker is using the same WW II era D2 supersteel.
You do miss USSR, where just 2 types of each, hunting and folding knives available to registered hunters only.

nozh2002 said:
I was hoping that Spyderco will push for made in US CTS-XHP, but that company is hard to understand lately.
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Yeah, very strange they'd ignore your guidance and prophecies.
 
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Hi Vassili,

CTS-XHP has not been available in production quantities. I assure you that when it is, we will be using it.

I don't think that Spyderco is hard to understand. I also don't agree that it's all marketing hype.

sal
 
agoutihead said:
Hmm its still a really good steel though isn't it? I only ask because I think I'm going to pick up a HEST/F when they come out. I really love the look.
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I have it on my BM 710 and really love it. It sharpens easier than their S30V and will even leave a mirror like edge. Underneath magnification there's a toothy look to it though. It looks like it's got more bite.

If you're not going to have a cardboard cutting competition against an identical blade in S30V for e.g. then D2 should serve you very well. :)
 
richw said:
Outside of nozh2002 (not disagreeing with him), is everyone in agreement that m390 is better than s30v in all the aspects that the original poster is asking or just edge retention?

Color me confused.

Rich
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Just looking at the steel elements, M390 has higher carbon, chromium, and has tungsten and silicon added in. The higher carbon and chromium can both lead to higher hardness as well as increase wear resistance due to more chromium carbides. It's also said that m390 is more corrosion resistant than S30V, so I assume there's more free chromium as well.

I believe Silicon keeps impurities out of the molten steel, making it less brittle. Tungsten should also add more to wear resistance.

In short, you have a steel with a higher carbide volume for wear resistance, more free chromium for corrosion resistance, and is easier to heat treat to higher hardness(Rc 60-62 compared to S30V at Rc 57-59).
 
cziv said:
I have it on my BM 710 and really love it. It sharpens easier than their S30V and will even leave a mirror like edge. Underneath magnification there's a toothy look to it though. It looks like it's got more bite.

If you're not going to have a cardboard cutting competition against an identical blade in S30V for e.g. then D2 should serve you very well. :)
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Yes when we have cardboard cutting competitions D2 is always good...
 
richw said:
Outside of nozh2002 (not disagreeing with him), is everyone in agreement that m390 is better than s30v in all the aspects that the original poster is asking or just edge retention?

Color me confused.

Rich
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Amen for bring my post back to earth. It was lost and I am still not 100% on this. Seem 50/50.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Vassili,

CTS-XHP has not been available in production quantities. I assure you that when it is, we will be using it.

I don't think that Spyderco is hard to understand. I also don't agree that it's all marketing hype.

sal
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Oh HO!

Any more news?
 
jaymeister99 said:
Not to hijack, but how does S35VN compare to M390?
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S35VN was developed to be easier to work with (grinding and polishing). Overall edge retention is lower, but not as much as it would be if they didn't use the new formula.
I expect it to be a halfway step between CPM 154 and S30V.
 
Joshua J. said:
S35VN was developed to be easier to work with (grinding and polishing). Overall edge retention is lower, but not as much as it would be if they didn't use the new formula.
I expect it to be a halfway step between CPM 154 and S30V.
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I know, but I havent seen any test or comparison on any S35VN yet. I would expect the edge holding to be slightly less than S30V with slightly better toughness.

Has anybody had any experience with it?
 
Should be about the same wear resistance but higher toughness than S30V. I'm looking forward to it.
 

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