CPM440c?

harrymole

harrymole

Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
377
I just read the article in Blade on CPM154. Amazing! They claim to get twice the toughness through this process. Meaning they can raise the HRC up to 2 pts. higher and still get the same toughness as the current ATS-34 or 154CM. Easier to sharpen than S30V, better polishing and improved toughness. So my question stands what is next 440c? Imagine the abilities to get several 'old' steels improved through this process. Just a thought. Thanks.:D
 
I have no idea what happened with my post. It glitched or something when I was posting, and I see why it delayed for song long. I didn't meant to do that those. We'll have to have someone move all but one of them. My apologies...

Cleary
 
I just made a whole bunch of knives out of CPM154CM. They grind easier when soft (a lot easier), finishing may be a touch easier than standard 154, but the finish is tons better. No grain visible after polishing. So far, so good. I'd really love to see CPMD2. I've had quite few requests for D2, and a CPM version might make me change steels.
 
harrymole said:
I just read the article in Blade on CPM154. Amazing! They claim to get twice the toughness through this process.
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They made extreme claims about S30V origionally as well. I would like to see a full materials data run for 154CM vs CPM-154CM. Most of what is claimed about CPM154CM vs S30V was true of 154CM, better machinability than S30V, etc. I find the direction odd, S90V > S30V > CPM154CM. The next logical step in the pattern is CPM420HC.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, I am glad you posted. Contrary to popular opinion I respect what you do. Initially those are the results they have gotten. They did say they are still field testing and do not have all the facts on it. But, wouldn't be nice if their preliminary results hold true. Think of the possibilities for the lesser steels mabey even the tool steels.
 
harrymole said:
They did say they are still field testing and do not have all the facts on it.
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That is an odd approach though, the manufacturer should do the relevant materials data, you can just go look it up for tool steels, no guess work, just check the graphs. With many of the new cutlery steels the users tends to do the research, which is interesting, but frustrating, just look at the rash of problems with S30V and now consider how it was promoted. It is interesting as always to look at new steel trends, the above seems to be on making it easier for the maker, I as a user would prefer a steel which made a better knife, not one that was easier to make into a knife. It would also be nice to have steels which had a longer lifetime than a few years. But again quick turn overs are one of the ways to sell products because the user can constantly "upgrade". As with everything, the real facts will come in once it hits mass market and people start using them significantly.

-Cliff
 
The Japanese steel ZDP-247 is 440C as far as I can tell, though I am guessing a little as most of the composition is "top secret." I can't remember from where that I read the little of the composition that they give. It's been a while.
 
Remember that there is always a cost /benefit problem. We can take standard made steel and improve it by things like vacuum degassing but at a cost. We can improve it further by making it CPM but at significantly higher cost. These steels also have other uses beyond knives .So it's up to the mill to decide if it's worth making a steel by CPM.
 
warden41272 "I just made a whole bunch of knives out of CPM154CM. They grind easier when soft (a lot easier), finishing may be a touch easier than standard 154, but the finish is tons better. No grain visible after polishing. So far, so good. I'd really love to see CPMD2. I've had quite few requests for D2, and a CPM version might make me change steels.
Yesterday 04:11 PM "

How much are we looking at in terms of price?



Mete "Remember that there is always a cost /benefit problem. We can take standard made steel and improve it by things like vacuum degassing but at a cost. We can improve it further by making it CPM but at significantly higher cost. These steels also have other uses beyond knives .So it's up to the mill to decide if it's worth making a steel by CPM."


Would it still be cheaper than producing S30V if you get very similar performance out of 440C or 154cm by using the CPM method? Or would it even be worth it just for the knife community? Thanks.:D
 
harrymole said:
Would it still be cheaper than producing S30V if you get very similar performance out of 440C or 154cm by using the CPM method?
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S30V is also a CPM steel, CPM-154CM should be cheaper than S30V. Even though CPM-154CM may be inherently more expensive to make than 154CM, Crucible argues for better machinability and ease of finishing, so knifemakers should find it easier to make knives out of than 154CM, which will counter act the likely increase in barstock price.

-Cliff
 
How far away is Sweden?

If someone really is interested in how a PM ATS34 or 154CM works in blades, RWL34 is PM ATS34 and used in the custom market over years. I would expect it to be used even in the us.

IMHO it is a great stainless compared to other stainless. But as a bladesteel it has the drawbacks like many of his high alloyed brothers and sisters. You will find reports of easy breakage to very strong steel over holds the best edge to takes no.

I have one single blade of it and i like it. I found it not that pain to resharpen it, as long as you have fitting equipment (don´t think about the SM).

It has taken and has hold the best edge of all my stainless. I found it to be in the middle between a toothy and a polished edge, so to say the finest microtooth.
 
Blop said:
You will find reports of easy breakage to very strong steel over holds the best edge to takes no.
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What does "easy breakage" refer to, prying or impacts. I am not sure what "over holds the best edge to takes no" means?

It has taken and has hold the best edge of all my stainless.
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What else have you used, S30V, VG-10, BG-42?

-Cliff
 
So if I get this right, CPM154 is cheaper to produce than S30V not as cheap as ATS-34 or 154CM. Then if performance is better than todays 154CM performance why not produce other steels in the CPM process and give the consumer a wider varity of choice. Example if given a choice between a Military in CPM154 or S30V and knowing that the only advantage to S30V besides price is a little bit better wear resistance. Why choose the S30V? If manufactures could offer this to the knife enthusiast then why not. Its all about choices. Thanks.:D
 
harrymole said:
Then if performance is better than todays 154CM performance why not produce other steels in the CPM process and give the consumer a wider varity of choice.
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CPM has been making CPM versions of other steels for awhile, they make CPM S7 for example. Note as well that Crucible is not the only one using powder metallurgy, as Blop noted there are others and powder versions of cutlery steels like ATS-34 have been available for a long time.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, I am glad you posted. Contrary to popular opinion I respect what you do.
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I don't think "popular opinion" is against Cliff. There are a few loud detractors, but they seem to be a small minority.
 
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