Crackdown...???

NickWheeler

NickWheeler

Joined
Dec 3, 1999
Messages
9,437
I'll probably regret posting this, but what the heck...

I'm trying to understand what the deal is with the recent crackdown on what's ok to post here in ST.

Aren't questions and thoughts that are targeted to other knife makers welcome here???

I thought Fred Rowe's recent thread about knife makers and ADHD, as well as Jason Fry's thread about collaborating with a production company were both exactly the kind of stuff that should be posted here. They are both threads from makers that have been making knives and were the kind of thing that would come up while makers are actually in their shops.... talking shop!

Yet they were moved. Why weren't those threads allowed here? Is shoptalk just a forum for wannabe makers to ask what tools they need now????
 
Agreed. These types of posts are probably intended to be in Around The Grinder, but that is a useless forum for me, even when I was a paid member, because I can't communicate with non-members. I don't understand why that's a premium forum.
 
I agree the best discussions result from the flexibility to explore a discussion that we have seen in the past.
 
This is the heading for Shop Talk

Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers

The art of knife making- advice on methods, supplies, and materials

ADHD or a Business Deal isn't about Methods to make knives.
Supplies isn't about those either.
Materials....nope.

That is why those threads were moved.
Both closed threads could have been posted in Around the Grinder, which is there for knifemakers to chit chat or discuss non-knifemaking subjects. I didn't move Fred's thread there because the registered users can't go there.

Many threads are moved for similar reasons. If someone asks about making a sheath, it is moved to the Sheath Forum. This provides the OP a better answer and keeps the sub-forums on topic.
Some threads are closed due to them being sales related, spam, or about subjects that are not related to knifemaking at all.

Bladeforums is a huge site. It has sub-forums for most any thing a knife person can want to talk about - From automatics, to forging, to naked gals...ladeforums has got it all. All the moderators are doing is trying to keep the topic in their proper places.

FWIW, I conferred with both thread posters, and they understand with my actions.
 
I'm right there with you Nick just when something interesting gets posted its moved. I guess I'll start frequenting other forums.

Btw if I'm working on a project can I advertise on shoptalk where it will be sold? Just wondering...
 
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Stacy- I'm all for sharing work and think it should possibly even be required so people can see if the guys giving advice actually walk the walk or just talk about it....

But according to your reasoning for moving Fred and Jason's threads---- How does YOUR thread about what you've been doing in the shop lately meet the requisites to be in Shoptalk?

I'm not saying that because I don't think you should be able to post "show and tell" rather to point out I think their threads had just as much right to be in ST as yours does.

Fred and Jason's threads were topics that were specifically directed toward knife makers... what better place to post those than in ST???? Moving them to a general discussion forum where 98% of the visitors are NOT knife makers doesn't make any sense to me. Moving them to ATG just means they'll be lucky to get 1 or 2 replies and then will fade off into obscurity.

Taking posts made by knife makers that would certainly be discussed by guys in their shops, and moving them is just going to push more knife makers away.... :thumbdn:
 
Yeah, I have to agree as well. While bladeforums is still a wealth of information, shoptalk just does not seem like the same place it was tow years ago when I really started frequenting.
There is not nearly as much information exchange and there is a lot more "this is how I make .... knife". Those threads are fine, but I would like to see them from Nick, Don Hanson III, Karl, and several others that I think we can all really learn something from. I posted a question in ATG several months ago and it got about 10 views and no comments, that is truly where a thread goes to die.
 
Big Chris said:
I posted a question in ATG several months ago and it got about 10 views and no comments, that is truly where a thread goes to die.
Click to expand...

THIS is why I question why ATG is a "premium" subforum. There doesn't seem to be anything premium about it. However, if it were made public, it is a perfect place for knife maker related, but not explicitly knife making, and make more sense to be generally available somewhere under "General Knife Maker's Discussion - The place for learning the craft, sharing information, and general discussion"
 
I understand both Nick's and Stacy's positions, but at a certain point, I think we start splitting hairs with no ideal place to leave the pieces.

Personally, I always thought that "Around the Grinder" was more of an Off Topic forum, not to mention it's limited access.

That leaves, in many cases, a move over to the "General Discussion" forums, which is where Mr. Fry's thread apparently ended up. But then it potentially (or perhaps realistically) gets lost amidst 1000 other unrelated discussions. Out of the 10,000 people that sift through the pages in GD, how many of them will be knife makers interested in that specific question? Personally, I RARELY visit the General Discussion forums, as 95% of what limited time I do spend on Blade Forums is spent in the Shop Talk sub forum.

Perhaps as a case in point, Jason's question still remains unanswered, other than a suggestion to reach out to other makers, which would be more likely to happen in a maker related sub-forum.

Now I suppose it's true that a "business" related sub forum could also provide some insight, but even that would only be from the business aspect and not a "knife making business" aspect as a whole, which has it's own set of nuances and intricacies that general business and economics can't always address.

What's the solution?
Seems to me that we are left to either risk losing threads in General Discussion or other sub forums, expand the definition of allowable threads (and perhaps clutter things up to an extent) in Shop Talk, or sub-divide the Maker's Forums a little more...
 
I think the post on ADHD is totally appropriate in this forum. How we organize our time, our supplies, and what treatments work for us IS all related to producing knives. Removing the stigma, and being open about the strengths and weaknesses helps people accept the process of exploring their treatment, which is a really common condition in knifemakers, is going to benefit many people. If the topic is geared to knife makers and the processes of making knives, including how we fit it into our lives, it should be in. An "I got a new dog" thread isn't about knives and should be out. The thread on how to price knives wasn't moved. Its just inconsistent.
 
I also have to agree...those posts should have stayed here in shop talk IMO. But its not just Shoptalk that has its problems its the whole place. I was issued an infraction for posting a pic of a completed knife in custom knife discussion a while back because I didn't have the proper credentials ( my platinum membership had expired)...so i upgraded to knifemaker , only to meander to Shoptalk and see the scuttlebutt about the same issue here..however it seemed o.k. for registered users to do it so as not to scare any of them off.

No forum is perfect...but it does seem to me like shop talk has definitely fallen the way of the regime.
 
Nick,
I'll reply to your complaint, but it is hardly worth the wasted bandwidth ....
My thread is about how I made some knives, and the processes used, and the materials used.........That is what Shop Talk I about.
If you can't see the difference between a thread about making knives and swords and a thread about ADHD mammoth hunters I really think you need to get some sleep.

If people can't find anything better to do with your time than to gripe at the moderators for keeping the Bladeforum rules which are set up by the owner of Bladeforum, I have two suggestions -
Take your whining to Spark in Tech Support .... Or go somewhere else.
 
When Stacy moved Fred Rowe's ADHD thread to General Knife Discussion, I moved it on to Community Center. GKD is for discussing specific knives themselves, their steels, their uses.

But even with two moves, with redirects left in place of the original threads, you can follow them where they've gone. Fred's thread is only the fifth one down in Community Center right now.

We aren't deleting, we aren't hiding them. I know people get attached to a favorite forum, but consider what the place would look like if every forum eventually turned into a general purpose bulletin board.

That said, you could ask Spark about opening up Around the Grinder the way Himalayan Imports' Cantina is open to everyone.
 
blades&grace said:
Btw if I'm working on a project can I advertise on shoptalk where it will be sold? Just wondering...
Click to expand...

No, all talk of sales goes in Exchange threads. Referring to those threads outside the Exchange has always been against the rules.

As a paid member authorized a sig line, you can add the reference to your sig line, though.
 
bladsmth said:
Nick,
I'll reply to your complaint, but it is hardly worth the wasted bandwidth ....
My thread is about how I made some knives, and the processes used, and the materials used.........That is what Shop Talk I about.
If you can't see the difference between a thread about making knives and swords and a thread about ADHD mammoth hunters I really think you need to get some sleep.

If people can't find anything better to do with your time than to gripe at the moderators for keeping the Bladeforum rules which are set up by the owner of Bladeforum, I have two suggestions -
Take your whining to Spark in Tech Support .... Or go somewhere else.
Click to expand...


Perhaps if it were so black and white....

Fred didn't just randomly post a thread about "ADHD mammoth hunters." He made a post about ADD/ADHD that was specifically directed toward knife makers. It seems a large percentage of knife makers have ADD. I don't think it's pure coincidence, I think it's because of the personality type/mindset of many of us that have been diagnosed with ADD. An open discussion about how that can affect knife makers and how they approach things is very pertinent to many knife makers. If you can't see how that pertains to knife making, maybe you need to get some sleep.

I'm sorry to hear it was such a waste of bandwidth for you to reply to me.

I have plenty of things better to do than "gripe at moderators." I was trying to open a discussion about something that I think is detrimental to this forum.

Your suggestion to go somewhere else is a solid one. :thumbup: :cool:
 
Its unfortunate when egos get in the way of discussion. After all that's the very essence of what a forum is. my presence would most certainly not be missed at all, but to chase out Nick....well it would sad to see him go and most certainly be more detrimental to the forum than putting a post in the wrong sub forum.
Maybe why so many others have abandoned this place.
 
I am new to this subforum. And have been in the process of absorbing info for some time now. Upon seeing the said posts, I smiled. As I felt that even though I am no maker yet, I could relate and see the point being made. It brings a little lightheartedness that is well needed and should be welcomed on a forum so packed full of tutourials and just plain information. But like i said im new.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
No, all talk of sales goes in Exchange threads. Referring to those threads outside the Exchange has always been against the rules.
Click to expand...

Well, then it would appear to me that my thread here is probably against the rules: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1088181-WIP-Steel-grinder-disk-machining

While I would like to continue to do the occasional custom build request for the group I don't want to violate the rules here either. Is there a pragmatic way to address the issue without tiptoeing around the fact that the items I'm building (by request) for the folks here are for sale here? It's common sense that a thread discussing the items is necessary to make folks aware of it, and if that thread isn't here in ST most folks won't see it.

I'm happy to keep taking requests for the folks here, but understand this is not my core business and if I'm upsetting the applecart by doing this I can stop. Is there a practical work around (that will work) that I'm missing?

Thanks,
Nate
 
I think a certain amount of restriction on what type of posts are in the given forums is a good idea. It would be a difficult position to be in making those choices. I am glad I don't have that job. That said, I went back and reread the offending posts. I decided I believe the post about ADD/ADHD should fit in the shop talk area, but the other post about business deals I think belonged else where. I also believe these posts which were allowed to remain should not have been:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1106267-Knowing-when-to-sell
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1106080-Knife-Makers-in-DFW-area
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1105196-back-in-the-shop-and-a-new-web-site
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...or-steel-grinding-balls-in-sub-ton-quantities
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1102061-Knife-Values-Prices

I did not go any farther than six pages back to find those. I do not wish anyone to think I have any intention of pointing a finger at any one person. But I remember a post about a pretty cool alligator for the top of an anvil. It had nothing to do with knives. Neither do any of the posts which proclaim one vender or another should have sainthood bestowed on them, but those are permitted time to time. Just my nickel's worth. Jess

By the way, Stacy's post which seemed to indicate "my ball, my rules" was reminiscent of grade school days and was offensive.
 
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