Crackdown...???

We all want shop talk to be better and I think we all have a different idea of how to improve it. I come here for techniques and tips. Not to read about ADD/ADHD in knifemakers. However, I would also appreciate not chasing off the valuable makers here who provide so much in the way of information and techniques. I can ignore irrelevant posts but I aneed the information that Nick and Stacy provide.
 
Has anyone else noticed that as certain makers on BF gain popularity they seem for one reason or another to get chased out of Shop Talk?

I miss the makers that have seem to have run into issues in ST and no longer post there.
 
Jesse Latham said:
I did not go any farther than six pages back to find those. I do not wish anyone to think I have any intention of pointing a finger at any one person. But I remember a post about a pretty cool alligator for the top of an anvil. It had nothing to do with knives. Neither do any of the posts which proclaim one vender or another should have sainthood bestowed on them, but those are permitted time to time. Just my nickel's worth. Jess

By the way, Stacy's post which seemed to indicate "my ball, my rules" was reminiscent of grade school days and was offensive.
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Sam always makes certain to show a knife in almost every thread he makes now, ever since the BBQ grill debacle. However, there are lots of threads that I believe to be an essential part of Shop Talk that aren't directly knife related. Speaking from experience, questions about forges and their construction aren't directly knife related, but I think most would agree that they belong in shop talk. The same with concepts about your knifemaking business, repairing your press, how to make a damascus hammer or hammering out a pair of tongs. Not directly related, but without the business, most would stop making knives. Realistically, only other knifemakers know the answers to knifemaker business related questions. Also threads about giveaways, 1000th posts, and KITHs aren't directly knifemaking related, but definitely belong here.

Long story short, if we start enforcing a STRICT line, we're going to lose a lot of the threads that are traditional favorites and we will only see the same 20 or so questions repeated endlessly. I vote to ease the guidelines for what is allowed to include these and other knifemaker related topics. I think that's what it is about, knifemaker related and not necessarily knifemaking related being the guideline.
 
Of course we all want to see the forum active and strong.

As I see it Stacy is just following the set guidelines - but if you remember the misunderstanding around the -no photos at all without a knifemaker membership
- that discouraged even sources such as Kevin Cashen and that's not healthy for the forum.


I have to agree, I don't read General.
If you have issues that concern makers Shop Talk is the best place to put them



Perhaps the solution is to make the "around the grinder" area a freely accessed non premium area.


Then shop specific discussion is in Shop talk, and non technical specific issues that concern makers go to around the grinder without the "thread death sentence" ?
 
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I would still like to see shoptalk divided into two sub forums. One for the more experienced makers and one for beginners. It seems like all the informative posts are few and far between, and the " first knife wip" or " how to get started in knife making" have flooded shoptalk nonstop recently. I don't look through shoptalk near as much for that reason. Shoptalk used to be the place where the Top guys posted and shared their knowledge. I miss that.
 
Before posting a new thread I take the time study what I want to say. I don't like to bore people; I don't care much for boring people.

When I posted the ADHD thread, how it affects knife makers and what they do to compensate for the condition, the interest was instant and sustained. This is a very relevant topic to many knifemakers. Anytime you get an intense exchange of ideas on a relevant subject you would think it would be recognized for what it is.
There are new makers that come on shop talk wanting advise on simple heat treats or what steel makes a good knife. There are many many stickies that address these topics.
There are also many accomplished knife makers[ not enough of them] who frequent this forum who don't need advice on heat treating W2 or 1084, they are looking for more stimulating conversation.

When the thread got bumped to GND with its 300 plus visitors the interest was still there. In a very short time it was moved to community where elephants go to die. There were 7 people there.
Of all the forums on the Blade Forums site its ShopTalk that should be most like an actual gathering of smiths; like a hammerin. When we hold hammerins here at our place there is no restriction on content; its about sharing and experience and involvement. I don't get that feeling much here; some days I feel I need to show my credentials.


A well moderated forum is one where the moderator goes unnoticed[ no offense my friend] Its an inclusive atmosphere that attracts quality makers to a site, when experienced makers feel they are being dictated to instead of welcomed and appreciated for their skill and accomplishments they will soon go elsewhere. What ever the solution, for the health of this site a free flowing and relaxed atmosphere must be maintained.
 
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Leethal Cutlery said:
I would still like to see shoptalk divided into two sub forums. One for the more experienced makers and one for beginners. It seems like all the informative posts are few and far between, and the " first knife wip" or " how to get started in knife making" have flooded shoptalk nonstop recently. I don't look through shoptalk near as much for that reason. Shoptalk used to be the place where the Top guys posted and shared their knowledge. I miss that.
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My 2 cents here is the above seems quite reasonable. It would probably be a good thing for both the site and the knifemakers if there was a non premium addition to shop talk called "beginning knifemaking" for the registered users to post their WIP and questions and the "shop talk" area made a premium area as with around the grinder for established knifemakers to converse about shop matters or off topic matters. Still it would mean that established knifemakers would need to distinguish between these two areas following the guidelines. The established knifemakers could offer advice to the beginners at their leasure without it muddying up the topics in shop talk.

If the "around the grinder" area seems like a dead area, it is not the fault of the moderator or the site, it is the fault of the users not utilizing an area given them.
 
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Karda said:
It would probably be a good thing for both the site and the knifemakers if there was a non premium addition to shop talk called "beginning knifemaking" for the registered users to post their WIP and questions and the "shop talk" area made a premium area...
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That same idea came up here a few months ago, with many experienced makers and newbies alike expressing basically what you just said... split it up between the pro's and the hobbyists.

It was quite a fooforaw. Some people got MAD! Some of them have since made a real big point on other networks/forums to exclaim how bad ST sucks.

I don't know about you and Stacy, but I had quite a number of emails and private messages and "chats" on FaceBook about it, and I'm not even a mod! I have nothing to do with how this place is run. (I did and will, however, point out that no one at BFC has ever "censored" or "shut me down" or "buried" anything I've said. That's strictly my own experience.)

Nothing happened, nothing changed. Here we are, having the same conversation weeks/months later. "The Ball" is in Kevin's court. Frankly, I'm doing just fine with the way he's running his forum.

Other forums successfully segregate newbs from masters; but they don't have anything resembling the sheer traffic that BFC does.
 
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Ya gotta be slightly amused at the irony that this thread was moved... ;)

I want to TRY to clear up a couple things-

First, I have nothing against Stacy, nor would I wish to have his job as moderator. I couldn't care less about him posting photos of his work in ST, in fact I wish more guys would do the same. If anyone thought I was simply complaining that he posted some "WIP" type of shots, then they missed my point.

Second, I was not prompted by anyone (other than myself ;) ) to bring any of this up--- so if I seemed to have drug Fred and Jason into a mess I apologize. They had nothing to do with it. I simply used their threads as examples because they fit really well with what I was trying to address.

FWIW- I really like what zaph and Fred wrote about talking shop, I feel the same way.


Thanks :)
 
NickWheeler said:
Ya gotta be slightly amused at the irony that this thread was moved... ;)
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I was so very close to adding a comment about the irony when I moved the thread. :) This is the best place to get stuff worked out which is why I moved it. I spelled out the reasons in my PM to you. Hopefully any issues can be ID'd and resolved.
 
It is not "My Ball, My Rules" It is Spark's rules and his ball. The moderators are just here to enforce them.

As James said, this was discussed a while back, and Spark said he would create the new other part of Shop talk, but he has not done it yet. There was also another moderator available to help out, but Spark has not acted on that either. All I can say is we tried, and he didn't do it. Maybe he will get to it someday.

Sorry to bust out at you Nick, but this just got my dander up.

Nathan, as long as you keep taking orders and sales out of your build and interest threads the mods have no problem with you. You are a valued member doing a service for the makers in Shop Talk. Same goes for Fred. He helps a lot of folks with his bubble jig. As long as his threads are informational about using the jig, or a giveaway ,and all sales and sales links are left out he is good, too. He recently stepped just a tad past that line and his thread was closed. It is communication with guys like Nathan, Fred, and Jay that make handling these situations work. Outside people crying foul, or saying "Why can't we change things." doesn't help. If someone has a valid complaint or suggestion, I am always available by PM or email. As I said before, you can also email or PM Spark, or post your complaint in Tech Support.
 
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I heard that Stacy is writing a new book titled: Bladeforums / Shop Talk, subtitled : Keeping a disparate gaggle of unruly knifemakers happy, cat herding and other exercises in futility...

...lol...


People need to recognize that most people come here for the content, and therefore the needs of the people creating that content is important.
 
NickWheeler said:
Ya gotta be slightly amused at the irony that this thread was moved... ;)
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Nick, I understand your sense of irony at this thread being moved. I admit, the "move" is kinda funny, and easy to make fun of.

You and I have disagreed adamantly and clashed like angry dogs before on similar topics, and I sincerely want to put that behind us. Frankly, our history of arguing with each other embarrasses me, and I think we're both capable of more reasonable discussion. Please give me a moment of your time and allow me to speak to you freely.

Tech Support is where this conversation belongs. This is where the people who actually run this asylum are most likely to see this discussion and take it under consideration.
 
Sorry to disagree Mr. Apelt but it does seem to me that you "took YOUR ball and went home".

Shop talk has over the last few years gone to the I'm a new maker how do I do this forum.

Any deviation from that is not tolerated.

It's no surprise that most accomplished makers don't contribute.

I don't get it.

Greg
 
I don't get the bitchiness. I really don't.

The rules were established years ago.

They were clarified, despite much gnashing of teeth and stomping of feet from tantrum-throwing people who refused to pony up for a membership but demanded their voices should be heard first, last year.

That discussion (and many more before it) included "who gets to post a pic of what" and "who gets to advertise their website" and "who gets to complain about the way the forum is run, despite not chipping in". Those questions have all all been addressed many, many times.
 
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When Tracy started up KD, he courted some good content producing makers with free memberships.

Lots of members went there because it was new and exciting.

I think that has been a factor, plus the pro makers have their own networks among themselves, telephone, email and real life.
A real issue can be discussed in person.

Thus the forum is bound to get the newbie how do I make a knife posts.
Plus it's tiring to deal with those same basic issues over and over again.
 
Shop talk is without a doubt the best part of bladeforums. Without the info there I never would have learned how to make knives, let alone do it as my profession.

I think we should do everything with can to encourage the top makers like Nick to post. Their knowledge is invaluable. Nick doesn't know it, but he taught me how to make knives through his WIPs.

I've never moderated a forum and don't fully understand all that goes into it, but I think we should do everything we can to keep shop talk a a place where experienced guys want to hang out. No one is forcing Nick or Fred to post and we should treat them like the commodity they are. If the rules are such that they discourage the best makers from posting, then the rules need to be changed. I think in the attempt to organize a forum the purpose of the shop talk forum has been overlooked. Its a place where the top guys hang out, talk about knife making, and things related to knifemaking.

If we keep going at the current pace, all of the top guys that we learn from are going to leave and we will be left with an endless list of "First knife WIP" threads that help no one.
 
KalEl said:
If we keep going at the current pace, all of the top guys that we learn from are going to leave and we will be left with an endless list of "First knife WIP" threads that help no one.
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My understanding is, that decision rests completely on Spark's shoulders. It's his playground.

Until he makes that move, it's awfully unfair for makers or newbies or masters or buyers or dealers or collectors or the the dipstick who just happened to wander in with a leaf-spring and a dream, to be all pissed-off at the mods for something they can't control. And frankly, I'm a bit disappointed by some of the makers I've looked up to for years, actin' a crybaby.

In the absence of leadership, LEAD! Any one of the cats in the "crosshairs of controversy" this past week could write a book about making amazing knives. Did they? No. We all just cry the blues about Kevin not doing enough, or Stacy doin' too much, or "why did my thread get moved", or... WTF. That's weak.
 
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