Crimpit LEO only ?

cpk

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
375
Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anybody might know just why the Crimpit is for leo. It seems that this would be a better and safer product for self defense. Sal was this a company descision? In this day of so many frivolous law suits such as firearms and tobacco it seems that a company such as Spyderco would want more Crimpits out there than live blades. Thanks for all your input.
 
When a US company stamps LEO on something and there is no US federal law that demands it, they loose my respect.

Maybe Spyderco has a secret motive: use the LEO stamp as a selling point to entice an all ready small market or maybe they just want to disarm the LEOs. ;)

Possibly Home Depot should start stamping LEO on its screw drivers. A 12" screwdriver could do way more damage than a CRMIPT. Wait a minute, I think I am on to something!!!! Stamp the screw drivers LCO; THAT'S IT!!! -- Licensed Contractor Only --

BTW, currently there is a move to get screw drivers off the streets
http://www.banscrewdrivers.com/reasons.htm it is only a matter of time.

The CRMIPT is safer for perp taking the punishment, safer for the LEO's department in civil court, but more dangerous for the LEO to use. If I was a LEO type, I would train with a good Arnis practitioner and opt for an ASP Air Weight. Also not all problems are two legged, I would rather ram a baton down a pit bull's throat then a CRMIPT. Of course, best case would be to feed it some .45 candy. A CRMIPT would be my very last option.
 
Hey, you guys are being hard on us. The CRMIPT was produced by Spyderco exclusively for Bram. Spyderco does not sell them. It was Bram's choice to create the restriction, and knowing Bram, I believe that he has a well thought out reason. He would be best to say.

If he doesn't get to this thread, you might go over to the Spyderco.com forum. Bram helps moderate the MBC forum over there so he's there often. He also has his own forum, but I'm sure the Spyderco group would be interested to share the info.

sal
 
Sorry Sal, I did not realize it was a customer contract relationship as opposed to a public offering. Please accept my humble apology to Spyderco. :)

As for Bram it appears that he is using the LEO stamp as a selling point to create a niche market, where there is no legal basis for needing the stamp. IMHO, using the LEO stamp is an attempt to legitimatize his product. Does he need to do that? :confused:

LEO is a dirty word in the gun community; it is a reminder of our eroded Second Amendment rights. Now to see it stamped on an impact instrument that looks like a knife is nothing more than a bad joke. :eek:
 
Actually, the LEO market is quite limited. Usually, an item is restricted to LE for liability reasons. An example of this ammunition that exceeds SAAMI specs for a given cartridge, which means it will wear out the weapons sooner, and of course void the warranty. I am curious as to why anyone would thing LEO is a dirty word in the gun community. Most LE I know are pro-gun and pro-2nd Amendment. Perhaps you confuse all LE with the BATF. Perhaps some people think that the rank and file LEO believes the statements of the anti-gun big-city police chiefs. Or, perhaps it is a regional thing.
 
Actually it is an annoyance. There are a lot of LEO toys that are illegal for civilians to possess, like high capacity mags and certain gun configurations made after a certain date, and some products are only sold LEO for no legal reason. Since I reload, I don’t know a lot about over the counter ammo. All though, I do buy run of the mill stuff like Hydro Shock, Cor-bon, Glaser Blue, and Gold Dot for EDC and ballistic tests (I test everything I use), but that’s about it, everything else is components.

The only ammo I found hard to buy was 9 pellet 00 buck in reduced recoil for my tactical shotgun and that does not exceed SAAMI specs, nor is it a warranty problem. Theoretically, using any reloads void warranties. I don’t by the “exceeds SAAMI specs” argument. If you are trying to saying LE uses unsafe products, then that could make for a dangerous situation. Maybe Ford should mark the Crown Victoria LEO.

The rational for LEO in some cases like AMMO is fear of liability. (A result of the judicial system usurping the legislative system in a back door manner.) Some firearm product manufactures want their stuff to be LEO as a friendly elitist gesture to the LE community. Possibly insuring that it would not go to the "bad guys".

When it comes to all the meddling the government has done to the firearms industry, most people in the gun community at large are not happy with it. Look what happen to S&W for trying to cutting a deal, a lot of people hate Ruger for his work to promote a limit on mag capacity, look at the flack that K-mart received. There are a lot of examples and the concept of LEO is one of them. Next thing you’ll know the .50 cal. will be LEO ---- but a duel knife! Give me a break!
 
ah, like the GG&G TID for surefire flashlites being LEO only??? that blew my mind.........

greg
 
I have seen the reduced recoil tactical buckshot and GG&G TIDs both sold on the open market, through mainstream dealers. I think I may know why Bram wants the CRMIPT to be LEO-only, but not being sure, will defer to him to answer this. The red drone version of the Gunting will, for all practical purposes, do the same thing as the CRMIPT. Except for the color of the handle scales, the only difference will be slightly sharper "horns" on the handle and the ramp, and that difference is subtle. This came up on another thread, and the general consensus was that the red drone makes a perfect less-lethal weapon for those who like the Gunting concept. I am inclined to agree, and I do have all three versions. A few minutes with a Dremel-type tool could sharpen the corners on the drone's ramp, if that is important, but IMHO, even the drone's ramp is plenty sharp enough for pressure point techniques. I could comment on the other issues here regarding the feds, government, and such, but that will be getting off-topic, and after all, my name and hometown listed here are real.
 
OK, sorry, but I must defend Bill Ruger for a moment. He did not "work to promote" a magazine capacity limit. Don't forget it was Bill Ruger, among the large manufacturers, who most vocally stood at the line in the sand and refused to cave into pressure as did S&W. He mentioned a mag capacity limit as a gesture to placate the hoplophobes, and that one slip-up was not repeated, and I do believe he regretted ever having said it. Remember, Bill Ruger was from an era when high mag capacity was deemed unimportant, and even wasteful. BTW, I am not a moderator, but we are starting to really get off-topic here.
 
Just so you understand my point of view, I have nothing bad to say about LE personnel in general. Like in any profession there can be good and bad ones out there. Being in the martial arts for many years, I have trained and trained with many LE guys. So I have seen a verity of attitudes about civilian. I have some good friends who are in LE and they have used their LEO discount at places to save me money on stuff (civilian legal stuff); they are the coolest dudes.

Not liking the LEO stamp has nothing to do with LE personnel. It has to do with the bull $h!t restrictive nature of the LEO stamp. I have even heard that in California that you have to have some kind of certificate to buy a baton. It’s all getting really stupid.

So back to the topic of a LEO stamp on a blunt dull knife (CRMIPT); I find it ridicules, when there is no state or federal requirement for it.

So is Bram just another imposer? :rolleyes:

I can see some civilian getting a hold of it and defending himself from an attacker and then losing a judgment in civil court after being made out to be a LE want to be. :eek:
 
So back to the topic of a LEO stamp on a blunt dull knife (CRMIPT); I find it ridicules, when there is no state or federal requirement for it.

:rolleyes:

So is Bram just another imposer?

Now we see the real purpose of this thread....

Let the flaming begin....

flamethrower.gif


I can see some civilian getting a hold of it and defending himself from an attacker and then losing a judgment in civil court after being made out to be a LE want to be.

You just said there is no legal reason for someone not to have this tool. If you lose that case you've got a piss-poor lawyer.


BTW, I used to have a CRMIPT, but what is a "Crimpit?"
 
Pachucko, your Smilies crack me up! :) Shall we arrange to meet this guy and show him the slight difference between the Drone and the CRMPIT?
 
The gene leading to trollism manifests itself so quickly.....

I will admit the spelling of this acronym has been a little confusing, I guess its not too well known. Anyway I believe the proper way is CRMIPT, I just did a search on the other Spyderco forum to make sure.

Pachucko, your Smilies crack me up!
I'm a smilie-whore. Whenever I see a good one I put it in my favorites.

Shall we arrange to meet this guy and show him the slight difference between the Drone and the CRMPIT?
Settle down there cowboy! If he saw one he'd probably quit complaining. I believe the Drone is actually better for most people.

AM, Go to http://www.gunting-museum.com/index.html and check out About the Gunting. Actually check out the whole site. There is also a link to Bram's new web-site, it has a forum where you might get a better answer to your question/opinion.

Here's one for Rex, re this thread:
flag.gif
 
Guys, before anybody gets too pissed at me about the BS flag above let me say this.....:D....I'm not trying to be confrontational, its just this has been "discussed" numerous times, in several forums. How about we talk about the differences in each tool, or how each is better in certain situations, or how each could be used, in other words something productive.
 
quote:
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I can see some civilian getting a hold of it and defending himself from an attacker and then losing a judgment in civil court after being made out to be a LE want to be.
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You just said there is no legal reason for someone not to have this tool. If you lose that case you've got a piss-poor lawyer.

There is no legal reason to have the tool **marked** as LEO, having such **could** cause a problem to a non LE person. It is the lettering, not the tool that is dangerous in this example.



Shall we arrange to meet this guy and show him the slight difference between the Drone and the CRMPIT?

I will have to take the 2:1 offer as a compliment!


Looking at a couple of past threads there seems to have been some bursing over the value of the Gunting/Drone. For this class of weapons I like the Tarani Aluminum Training Karambit by Blade-Tech. But they are all good, even a hidden hand full of sand can be a bitch. Everyone has preferences for weapons/range/applications.

All of this is off topic. So lets get back to it, what is the reason the CRMIPT is stamped LEO?
 
Having been in law enforcement for over 19 years, I have seen many special editions of products made available only to law enforcement. A good example of this is a special run of a firearm or knife, and usually the only difference is cosmetic. Another example is "police package" vehicles, available only to agencies or officers, and the difference being actual components of the vehicle. Some gunsmiths will produce certain modifications only for law enforcement officers or agencies, one example being a well-known gunsmith who converted .38 K-frame S&W revolvers, with thin tapered 2-inch barrels, to .357 magnum, and altered the grip frame to something like a J-frame size. Certain variants of handguns have been LE-only, such as what are now known as DAO revolvers, and I believe certain variants of the Beretta 92 and 96. Some of these have no logical or legal reason for being LE-only. Perhaps Spyderco made a run of CRMIPT knives, and Bram wanted them all to go to LE. Alien Mind, do you have a Gunting and a drone handy? If so, compare the peaks of the ramps. The drone has a rounded peak, and the CRMIPT has a peak just like the regular Gunting. The CRMIPT also shares the slightly sharper points at the portion of the handle that is nearest the hole when the blade is open. The practical difference if the weapon is actually used in a self-defense situation is about zero. The CRMIPT would be more likely to break the skin than the drone, but that would probably not affect on the outcome of the fight, IMHO. Any time you must try to justify your use of self-defense, it is always in your favor to minimize the visible injuries that you have inflicted. Therefore, the drone is a better choice for self-defense by civilians, who do not have the benefit of lawyers furnished by the police union every time force is used. I can think of one reason I am glad the CRMIPT is LE-only: it keeps the collectors and speculators from buying all of them and driving the price up, since they are quite rare. BTW, I was not meaning that Pachucko and I should use violence to reinforce our positions; it was more of a private joke. Now, why don't we let Bram state his reasons, when he has time to get back to the forum?
 
I will have to take the 2:1 offer as a compliment!
There is nothing but love for you here dude....:D

All of this is off topic. So lets get back to it, what is the reason the CRMIPT is stamped LEO?
Heck if I know (definitely anyway).



Alien Mind, do you have a Gunting and a drone handy? If so, compare the peaks of the ramps. The drone has a rounded peak, and the CRMIPT has a peak just like the regular Gunting. The CRMIPT also shares the slightly sharper points at the portion of the handle that is nearest the hole when the blade is open. The practical difference if the weapon is actually used in a self-defense situation is about zero. The CRMIPT would be more likely to break the skin than the drone, but that would probably not affect on the outcome of the fight, IMHO. Any time you must try to justify your use of self-defense, it is always in your favor to minimize the visible injuries that you have inflicted. Therefore, the drone is a better choice for self-defense by civilians, who do not have the benefit of lawyers furnished by the police union every time force is used.
Thanks Rex, great explanation.

AM, did you check out Gunting-Museum? I'm sorry if I seem a little crass but it seems like people come out of the woodwork whenever they smell a Bram bash-fest brewing.

Looking at a couple of past threads there seems to have been some bursing over the value of the Gunting/Drone.
Hmmm, I believe the combo is worth a little over $200...:D...sorry, couldn't resist.
 
Bram is out of contact now dealing with a family emergency. He is not able to respond himself, but will be able in a few days. The Gunting was the first knife to come out with different colored handles that had different apperances to them. The CRMIPT was designed for police officers, so that they may be able to carry them and use them accordingly. I wish that it was a selling point and that every police officer in the US had one and so does Sal and Bram. The idea is that the color of the tool can be distinguished from other knives and tools right away. There is more impact with the CRMIPT than the Drone therefore that is why make it Blue and have it for officers who may need it. If Bram is doing all this for money, he would have quit a long time ago. He is trying to help people and maybe save some lives in the process. Some of you should read his articles on his site www.cssdsc.com .

George
 
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