critic my grinds please

Charlie Mike

Charlie Mike

Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob)
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
28,365
Keep in mindc I freehand it on a Kalamazoo 1x42...

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O1
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CIA Zipper Pull
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Balisong /Dewey collab
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Charlie Mike,
You've got to work on some symmetry, bud. Even using a kalamazoo 1 x 42, you can get some nice even grind lines. Try to focus on keeping your body, arms and hands exactly the same on every pass. Try imagining you are a robot and your movements are always the same. Once you get your hands and arms into the right position, lock 'em up and move your whole body across the belt, that should help you keep things more rigid. I've discovered that grinding blades is NOT a freestyle sport! :) You've already figured out how to put steel to the grit, now you need to refine and straighten it out a bit. The fact that you're actually trying already shows that you have the desire. I know you and don't doubt your passion for blades. Just try to reel yourself in, take it very, very slow, and concentrate on consistency with your movements across the platen. Keep it up!
 
1. Get or fabricate a good jig.

2. Use the jig.

By following steps 1 and 2 your bevels will be precise and uniform in almost no time at all.
 
I've seen the pics you post here and on JD


You don't have to show the world everything you make, just the pieces that turned out perfectly.
I mean that -- perfectly.

Look at good makers pics and yours, see the differences and make changes
- for instance that kydex sheath on JD flame burned and stapled together...I just shook my head...

My junk draw is full of crap, but no one will ever see it.



If you want to be taken seriously, ditch the FTW engraving and booze in the pics




Forget dagger grinds, try just one sided chisel grinds for a while.

Symmetry is key.
Have a plan ahead of time - Scribe in lines on the steel on the edge and side - so you know where to go and where to stop.



To get the best out of your grinder:
-Use a jig,
-Start with a super fine grit like 400 or 600. The fine grit will slow down the metal removal and mistakes happen more slowly.
Never stop in one place, always keep it moving.

The knife does not have to all be done on the grinder.
You can flatten out your grinds by hand sanding.
Check out Don Fogg style sanding sticks, or the huge WIP thread by Nick Wheeler
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Wheeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you


Use barstock instead of files, it's softer to work with then send it out for pro heat treat.



Pick a small utility and make 20 of them, all the same, each one better than the last.
I like the "CIA Zipper Pull" - just try to refine it

Thin cuts better

Aim for perfection, not production


Try this info too.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/864687-Knife-Making?p=9793335#post9793335
 
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I'll try to be like Johnny Mac and try to give constructive criticism.

It appears that you like the buffed, mirror look. That's fine, but I would recommend considerably higher grits before you do. There are a massive amount of grind lines still visible, even though you've already taken it to the buffer. It doesn't appear that any hand sanded was performed on a couple of the knives. The last knife has the best plunge line, but it still looks wrong. It should be a clean difference between the bevel and the ricasso. On the 1st and 4th knives, it badly rounded off. It's tough to do when first starting out. I have only had one blade so far where I kinda liked the plunge lines. Same for the false edges on the top. They look washed out at the top where it should be a clean finish.

Get some knife steel, probably 1075/1080. Much easier to work with than files. The money you save on HT of hardened files will be offset by the additional belts used trying to grind on hardened steel. Finish your knives as completely as possible before sending them off for HT.

Everyone else: There's no reason to be mean. He's asking for your help to get better, not to help talk him out of knifemaking.
 
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CM, I am in no position to critique your work, but I can tell you that the very first thing you need to do before you grind another knife is get a platen and work rest on your grinder. Get some chainsaw files to cut your plunge line in by hand before you grind. Don't be afraid to throw away a piece of steel either.


-Xander
 
i'm going to be helpful like jonnymac, numbers and zaph1. listen to what they say.

small blades are hard to grind. make a few larger knives first. (take the knife you sent me to regrind for instance :p:D) and with a 1" wide belt sander its going to be hard to get a good grind on without plenty of practice. you should practice getting a good finish on a piece of metal and do the same on your knives.

forget a jig. they are just good for a long straight grind. learn to grind freehand. a guide to keep your plunge lines straight and even would be a good idea. check out the guide i made. http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/ress6fq6/id22.html

practice on some softer steel first which will be a lot easier to grind.

i'll give you a call later today and maybe i can give you some more helpful info to improve your grinds.
 
Some great advice here. My only addition to the advice already given is, you are starting out with a rough uneven piece of steel. Your grinds will never be even or clean. Having said that, If you like the rough gritty looking blade that is fine they are your knives.

Getting your hands on a clean piece of 1080 would be a huge help, take is slow keeping the blade level through the entire grind "Like a Robot" :D as JonnyMac nicely stated. Drop me a PM :thumbup:
 
zaph1 said:
There's no reason to be mean. He's asking for your help to get better, not to help talk him out of knifemaking.
Click to expand...

No one has been mean, and he asked for it.
Literally, asked for it. He even said please.
Anything less than an honest answer would be doing this man a disservice.

Charlie Mike, you don't need us to critique these for you.
You can do it.

I know that you have looked at a lot of knives.
Hell, you pulled out half a dozen at the Plaza show last year or the year before and showed me.
So, you've been to at least one knife show with a lot of nice knives, and clean grinds.

Step back, pretend you didn't grind them, and look at them.

How do they look?
 
Unless you are going for heavily convexed grinds, you need to work on feeling that flat surface against the platen. Pressure is key, too much and the belt wants to grab and bounce the blade, too little and you can't feel the flat register and you end up with rolled bevels.
Some of your grinds look like they just need more time on the grinder, refining and flattening with finer belts. You might try a higher grind, the wider the bevel gets the easier it is to register against the platen.
 
Hey CM... I think maybe you're asking for the wrong thing.

You've asked the ShopTalk makers to critique your grinds... and as a result, you've gotten a lot of critique/criticism. And I won't argue that these criticisms weren't justified... but with your experience over on the balisong forums, you already knew that. You've seen photos of Marlowes, Dobruskis, Guinns and Gedriatis's... and you know that your grinds have a ways to go.

I think what you meant to ask for was advise on how to improve your grinds. From one new maker to another, I'll reiterate some of the advice that you've already been given.

  • Mr. Niro gives good advice when he recommends hand files. You mention in your post that we should keep in mind that you freehand on a Kalamazoo 1x42. There are a couple of reasons why I think this is a poor excuse.
    1. I have seen several decently ground knives created using less-than-optimal grinders.
    2. I have seen many very nice knives created using NO grinder at all. Just hand tools.
    If you feel that the grinder is the problem, then lose it. Hand files will work well if you use them properly... however...
  • jonnymac does give you some decent tips on how to improve your machine grinding. For more info on machine grinding techniques, just do a search in Shop Talk or check out Salem Straub's Grinding Tips webpage. There's a lot of info out on the web.
  • I really appreciate several of the Count's comments:
    1. Use some layout dye and a scribe. Scribe your centerlines. Scribe your grind-lines. Establish symmetry and boundaries. This is a big deal.
    2. Use hand-sanding sticks. Remove all scratches. Keep your flats flat.
    3. Aim for quality, not quantity.
    4. If you want to showcase your attitude, keep the booze and cigs in your photos/vids... if you want to showcase your knives... well... you see where this is headed.
  • And as for Zaph's post...
    Your grind lines are washed out... it appears that you may be using a buffer - way too much and way to early. Use sanding sticks and sandpaper. Work through the grits, eliminating scratches from the previous grit. Keep your flats flat.
One more thing that I'd recommend - You mentioned in one of your previous threads the importance of mentoring. I'm not sure exactly where you live, but you would likely benefit from spending some time with a knifemaker in your area. I've found that if a newb is humble and friendly, most makers are happy to share some time and knowledge.

Best wishes. I look forward to seeing some cleaner work from you in the future.
Erin

Edit: I guess several other folks posted while I was typing this. I especially appreciated Brian's post. :thumbup:
 
Wow, I just learned a lot. I need to get a vice sometime as well, make this a lot easier.
 
Fellhoelter said:
Step back, pretend you didn't grind them, and look at them.

How do they look?
Click to expand...

Will someone please give this man a prize!?!?!?!? :D

PERFECT ADVICE Brian!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :)

We build an intimate connection to our work, and often times it's hard to sit back and look at it like an unbiased person walking up to our table would do. But you gotta try. :)
 
BTW, I've got pretty thick skin. I'm not gonna get a sandy vag from some of the replies here.
 
CM - that's hilarious!

I think if you apply the useful advice posted above, you'll do just fine! See the knife in my avatar? That's my first "real" attempt at making a knife. Or rather, knife-like object. It's from an old Globe-brand file. It's still way too thick, with a rounded bevel- not really what it needs to be at all however, it still cuts quite well and is a WIP so there is still work to be done on refining it... I'm proud of it because I made it!

Continue making knives and pursue making each one better than the last!
 
Lets see, I have been doing this for just over a year and used nothing but hand tools for most of the time. I just recently got a real grinder and am working on perfecting my technique on it. I wont say what is bad about the work, but rather give you some of the things I do to get them as good as possible.
  1. Know exactly what you want to have when it is finished
  2. Draw up the profile and put your grind lines on the drawing, even the holes for the handle
  3. get some fresh steel, not files, and transfer your drawing to the steel. You can use layout dye, marker, what ever works for you.
  4. Cut out the profile and refine it with the grinder and some files. No matter how good your grinder is, you will still need some files to fine tune your profile
  5. Now lay out you grind lines, step way for a bit and come back. Does it still look right? Take the blank in hand, does it feel right? If anything feels or looks off fix it now while still in the layout stage.
  6. Now that you have it laid out and feel everything is the way you want it, find something you can use as a guide for your plunge lines. It doesn't need to be fancy, it could just be a piece of tape, just something you can see while grinding. I use two pieces of PG O-1 that still had the factory edge on them. I drilled and tapped them so they lined up perfectly, then did a quick home HT and left them at full hardness, no tempering.
  7. Now it is time to put steel to abrasive. the first thing to do is knock off the leading edge of the steel. Start a little bit out from your grind line at around a 45 degree angle. Do as Johny Mac says, move your body not you arms and stay consistent. Once you have a 45 down to almost your pre ht thickness, start moving the grind up the blade by slowly slackening your angle of approach with each pass. Something I have found helps me is starting with your weak side and matching that on your strong side. Don't grind one side completely and switch to the other, do it in steps, grind a bit on one side then match it on the other, just like sharpening. With each step in moving the grind line up the blank push the plunge back to where you want it. Remember little steps make big improvements.
  8. When you are near you grind lines, how close is up to you, stop! Now get your best file and draw file it up to you finish marks, this will give you nice flat bevels that match to the best of your skills. If you keep at it each knife after should improve
  9. Now break out the sandpaper and start working your way to your pre HT finish. I hate sanding so I go to 600 grit. I start at 240G and just work my way through the grits, so 240-320-400-600. Now its time to HT your piece
  10. I send 99% of what I make out for HT so it comes back nice and clean and straight. I start sanding again at 400 or 600 depending on what it looks like when I get it back and go to at least 1500 when I am doing a satin finish or all the way up to 2500G and some times 3500 for a polished finish. If I am doing a satin I drop down to 600G and lightly draw the paper over the steel while is is lubed till I get a nice even finish.

One last tip bring the steel in parallel to the belt if you don't you will either get a low spot at you plunge or with your grinder size 1" out from the plunge, I still have trouble with this hence the draw filing before sanding and I always seem to come it with the tip leading just a bit and get the dreaded 2" disease:o

If you have any questions feel free to PM me and ask, I will help you out the best I can.
 
CM - You think and push the edge, I don't always agree with some of your ideas, but you are making things and learning. Obviously, the KISS principle is rather foremost in your mind, and art is a secondary consideration.

Function over form, nothing wrong with that.

Remember the roots of human blademaking endeavors...

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Wonder how the first attempts looked?

Keep at it! :D
 
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