Critique my preparedness

Velitrius said:
All in all, a poncho, light, and a pack of Frito-Lay trail mix won't even require space in your day pack... it'll fit in your vest pockets. You can add them to your pockets for less than $10 and your level of preparedness jumps up another level. Add a whistle to your zipper pull and now you have a signal/distress call.
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"there's a 100% chance of darkness tonight." LOL, and that's nothing but true. Solid criticism. But I do like my jerky.

The dog ain't offended...unless you are part Chipmunk.
 
Herlock said:
Luckily it never happened to me to have a non planned overnighter but, it’s true, one can never know.
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Herlock, 1500 people died in the USA of hypothermia in 2010. Can you believe that?

You speak with the voice of experience and words of wisdom. Thanks for your entry. Sometimes we get a bit casual here in the Rocky Mountains--not a good idea. I really appreciate your thoughts about clothing choices.

Stay safe, my friend.
 
Left no plan -- where you were going, where you were parking, area you were hiking, or when to expect your return or a call that you had made it back to your car.

Didn't check contents of bag before departing. You could only be guaranteed to have a bag, a bottle of water, jerky, a dog, and what you were wearing.

I'd have dressed differently. If I'm carrying r wearing a vest, I'd have a better shirt and long pants. Certainly no cotton.

Though you had a hat you had no thermal hat, nor and wet weather protection, fire starter, minimal first aid kit, or signal (whistle or such), no flashlight of any kind, and very little water. I'm no believer in carry everything for every eventuality and carrying redundancy for everything and am a believer in carrying going light, but there are some minimals required.

Luckily the weather didn't turn or you didn't break you ankle and didn't have to extend your visit overnight for for days. Hypothermia and blod loss didn't get you this time.
 
No expert by any means. But a lightweight tarp is cheap insurance Incase i need to hunker down due to weather or injury
 
Rotte said:
BillyJoe, you have an outstanding list and have been the first to raise a couple points that I think are important. However, let me play the ignorant fool that I am and ask a couple of questions:
1. Do I really need all that stuff for the woods? I mean, I was just going for a short hike.....
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Absolutely not! :D You, I, and many others proved it over and over. :thumbup:
Rotte said:
2. How much does all that stuff weigh? I looks like I could survive for days and days with your list of stuff, but it looks heavy to carry.
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I consider it, or attempt to remember to consider it, for all hikes, fishing, hunting, kayaking, etc., etc. whether it is a few hours or two weeks. :) More or less, I'll check the weather and decide what I'll carry. For day-hikes, my pack and other gear might weigh 10lbs or 20lbs. It depends.

If I go all out serious three-season, it could be right at twenty-five pounds, but that includes eight pounds of water & food.

- Packed Clothes - UW, Socks, Extra Pants, Extra Shirt, Rain Jacket, Rain Pants, Poles, Gloves, Hat and Umbrella
5.27 pounds
- Pack and Cover
2.31 pounds
- Tarp, Cord (excessive amounts), Stakes and other accessories
1.03 pounds
- Water Filter and Accessories, Water Containers, Alcohol Stove & Fuel or Wood Stove, 0.9L pot
2.20 pounds
- Water (3L), Food (2lbs)
8.00 pounds
- Hygiene, First Aid, Medical
1.36 pounds
- Navigation, Communication, Illumination
1.62 pounds
- Tools, Cord, & Repair Kit
1.70 pounds

Total 23.67 pounds

I can drop over seven pounds without thinking much about it.

- Packed Clothes - Socks, Rain Jacket, Rain Pants, Single Pole, Hat, Gloves, and Umbrella (I realize this remains excessive in some opinions.)
3.02 pounds
- Pack without Cover
2.00 pounds
- Tarp, Cord (lesser amount), Stakes and other accessories
0.81 pounds
- Water Filter and Accessories, Water Containers
0.87 pounds
- Water (1.5L), Food (2lbs)
5.50 pounds
- Hygiene, First Aid, Medical
1.00 pounds
- Navigation, Communication, Illumination (I eliminated extra batteries and my pad & pens.)
1.00 pounds
- Tools, Cord, & Repair Kit
1.20 pounds

Total 15.90 pounds

Rotte said:
3. I'm middle aged and not in the best shape, will I get a heart-attack humping that load 2000' into thin air?
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That depends on many other factors, but my pack and gear are unlikely to be the primary cause. :thumbup: :D
 
leghog said:
Left no plan -- where you were going, where you were parking, area you were hiking, or when to expect your return or a call that you had made it back to your car.

Didn't check contents of bag before departing. You could only be guaranteed to have a bag, a bottle of water, jerky, a dog, and what you were wearing.

I'd have dressed differently. If I'm carrying r wearing a vest, I'd have a better shirt and long pants. Certainly no cotton.

Though you had a hat you had no thermal hat, nor and wet weather protection, fire starter, minimal first aid kit, or signal (whistle or such), no flashlight of any kind, and very little water. I'm no believer in carry everything for every eventuality and carrying redundancy for everything and am a believer in carrying going light, but there are some minimals required.

Luckily the weather didn't turn or you didn't break you ankle and didn't have to extend your visit overnight for for days. Hypothermia and blod loss didn't get you this time.
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Solid criticism, leghog.

But....please allow me to defend my hat.



I know it may not look like much, but it is warm. I was sweating under it during the day in question. Because it is warm, I don't wear it in Summer, just Spring and Fall. I have worn this hat in a snow-storm while standing in a freezing river fishing, and I was mighty glad for it's warmth. Would it be my first choice for a snowshoeing trip? No. No way. But you and a couple of other guys have dis'ed my beloved hat, and I feel the need to rise to it's defense. Surely loyalty counts for something.

BTW, I think you are the first person to criticize my choice of a COTTON shirt. Well done. THe saying out here is that "Cotton kills." And, true to form, I was sweating and got the shirt damp--classic recipe for disaster.
 
Rotte said:
What? I need to go to the gym more? Or should I cut back on the BBQ ribs and beer? :o

Thanks for the weight estimates!
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Once again, let's not go overboard here! Just allow for the BBQ and beer with the TP. :D
 
OK, I think we can wrap this up. You guys have been great, and I like the way different people came at the question in different ways. I do think it pays to have a system. I kind of have one, but on the day in question, I didn’t use it. Obviously. Time for my self-critique.

I like the idea of the ’10 Essentials’. I think the concept of the “10 essentials” evolved from the idea that in unforeseen circumstances, one could survive in difficult weather over a night or two. I clearly failed to meet those standards, although I’d like to think that with some ingenuity I could have improvised and survived.

What constitutes the 10 essentials varies from author to author, but usually looks something like this: Light/illumination, rain gear/clothing, FAK, food, water, map & compass, knife/repair kit, sun protection, shelter, and fire. I did have some of that covered.

What did I have going for me?

I had tools to make shelter and fire. I had a good knife, a rudimentary fire kit, and some cordage (20’ of 6 mil cord that served as my dog leash). There was plenty of brush on site and dry fuel. I could have had a fire going quickly and made a Wickiup. Also, there are some shallow caves or rock overhangs in the area I could have used for shelter.

I had some water, 28 oz. Extra water would have been tough to find. We are in a drought, and the seasonal creek are low or dry. Open water would have been miles of tough terrain away. But I did have a bandana to collect dew/frost. And I had a small pack and some bags to collect rain water (if it had rained).

Food. I didn’t have much, but then again, I’ve been without food for 5 days in extreme cold and survived just fine. It sucks, but it is doable.

My clothing was OK as long as I kept moving—I actually took off my vest because I got hot. I’m not saying a pair of shorts and a thin vest will cut it during sub-32º weather. A fire can keep you warm though. If I had gotten stuck I would have made a debris shelter or Wickiup.

While I didn’t have a map or compass (I’m not going to count a cell phone compass as a real compass), I did have a general idea of where roads and a town were, I have a rough idea of the geography. I could have used the sun to help orient me. At night, before the clouds rolled in, I could have used the North star. Also, In this terrain, moving down hill and down creek beds will eventually get you to a town. But town was several miles away.

While I didn’t have a FAK, I did have a bandana that could be pressed into service as a bandage. I could have fashioned a crutch or splint using my knife and some wood along with the hound’s leash.

As far as sun protection, I had a brimmed hat (awesome hat!) and long sleeved shirt. I was in woods, mostly, and could find shade.

Where do I go wrong?

Wow, you might better ask, where didn’t I go wrong.

Planning: You guys were pretty nice to me, but spotted the poor planning on my part pretty quickly. I was hasty and didn’t really have a good plan. I left inadequate contact information. I didn’t check the weather forecast. I didn’t plan for potential threats.

A couple guys alluded to threats, but let me expand on that a bit. A mountain lion was spotted in the area I was hiking in the week before. The bears have had a tough summer and are at lower elevations looking for easy food. In hindsight a bit of pepper spray may have been prudent. My .44 would have felt like overkill, but would it have been foolish? What about a bear bell?

The weather in the Rockies is notoriously uncertain. A bow hunter recently died of exposure in the next county over. The weather is the biggest threat here. Maybe followed by falls.

Speaking of hunters, hunters were out, and I was dressed in a slate blue shirt, brown shorts, and a brown hat. I had a red pack, but would an orange shirt have made more sense?

My clothing options were questionable. A cotton shirt in the mountains in cold weather is a bad idea. A sweaty cotton shirt in the mountains in the cold weather is a really bad idea. I could have substituted a thin wool shirt or thin poly shirt. I even have a couple of wool t-shirts (hard to find).

Several guys questioned my choice of shorts in sub-freezing temps. I think that is fair, but I specifically chose shorts to minimize sweating and developing damp pants (I was thinking a little bit). While walking, the shorts are great. If I got stuck over night….

I didn’t have much in the way of extra clothing. My biggest self-criticism is that I didn’t have any rain gear. Some over-pants and a jacket could make a world of difference. In the same way a space blanket or tarp could be a life saver. I haven’t done this in the past, but I think a pair of leather work gloves might make sense. If you are in a situation where you might want to build a shelter, gloves could protect your hand from pokes and bites while working with brush. Extra socks are a good idea to prevent blisters.

Getting back to my piss-poor-planning: In summer I usually use a small lumbar pack with a couple of water bottle holders. In late summer, I cannibalized my day pack for a motorcycle road trip: I took my multitool, FAK, compass, and headlight out. Not a problem until a Fall hike where I just grabbed my depleted pack and headed out….. Fortunately the old adage, “haste makes waste” didn’t come back to haunt me here. A little more planning and pre-mission gear checking would have resulted in better preparation, I think.

I think Codger_64 kinda hit it on the head when he recommended have a dedicated day pack and making sure you replenish supplies as you use them. I’d add that it would seem to be a good idea to check that bag and do a little planning before heading out.
 
Please feel free to critique my self-criticism. I'm not claiming to be an expert. I may have left a few points out.

Let me sift through the responses and pick a winner by random drawing.....
 
I assigned the respondents a playing card number, shuffled the deck, and selected....


BillyJoeBobJim

Congratulations and thanks for playing. I really appreciated everyone's participation and input. No need to end the discussion here....
 
Congratulations to the winner, BillyJoeBobJim!

Kudos to all for an informative, congenial thread that brought out the best in contributors and the best of preparedness ideas.
 
Thank you Rotte for posting this thread for us to critique and... examine how we each have made the same mistakes (or worse) in the past and either escaped the consequences or not. You did a fair job of self critique as well. Except for the hat ;)
 
Rotte,

It's been a fun discussion and a good thread to read. Nice of you to share your own self-critique with us too. Congrats to the BillyJoeBobJim too!

Just some thoughts on the the self-critique:

1) This may be totally subjective, but I think the decision making process you undertake, after your minor injury, is worth further thoughts. Certainly, whether it is a an appropriate decision is mostly judge by outcome(which now you are alive and kicking), but there is also element of luck that may involve too. Given you too know that there is something missing/lacking after the trip, would you be making the same decision or would you turn back?

2) Even though one could build a fire and make a 'shelter' to keep warm, that's under the assumption that it is possible to get a fire going all night, and is not too injured to move around to build/gather. I too would definitely look into option of stuffing a warm jacket and long pants. My favorite pants for hiking has detachable legs, and it might be of interest to you if not wanting too much weight.
 
comis said:
1) ... Given you too know that there is something missing/lacking after the trip, would you be making the same decision or would you turn back?

Always a good question. Disaster investigations alway establish a chain of causality. There is never one factor leading to a disaster. It's always a chain of events. I certainly had a few links in that disaster chain built: poor planning, limited gear, variable weather, and then a minor injury. Maybe no one factor is all that significant, but when they get combined, perhaps just a link or two away from a real problem.

When I tweaked my knee, I had already realized some of the other issues we've discussed (and started to think about writing this thread), so, for better or worse, my decision to continue on was made with the awareness that I had already made some...uhhh...'less than optimal' choices.

A couple of points here that I didn't address: 1) when I tweaked my knee I was about 40% of the anticipated trip length. turning back would have saved me a bit of distance but not more than a mile or mile and a half. 2) I expected the terrain ahead to be less steep. so I traded distance for ease of hiking. 3) My knee didn't seem to bad (although it is still sore as I write); I figured I had a couple of hours walking before it swelled or got stiff (this turned out to be pretty accurate). 4) I'm kinda stubborn.

2) Even though one could build a fire and make a 'shelter' to keep warm, that's under the assumption that it is possible to get a fire going all night, and is not too injured to move around to build/gather. I too would definitely look into option of stuffing a warm jacket and long pants. My favorite pants for hiking has detachable legs, and it might be of interest to you if not wanting too much weight.

I agree with your observations here. I'll just say that as I was walking along, I did notice that there was a lot of available wood (beetle kill). I have some confidence in keeping fires going. I once spent a cold and rainy night in the Medicine Bow forest in Wyoming keeping a fire going through the night. Our clothes were wet and it just kept raining. But we had a proper camp fire going and a system to dry the wood before adding it to the coals. A long night, but we were pretty happy in the morning, and had stayed comfortable...comforatble-ish. This does require a good amount of wood, and if you are in that situation, I recommend collecting a lot of wood early on--you don't want to be stumbling around in the dark...especially if you left your headlamp at home. :o

As far as pants go, I'm still a fan of shorts. I think it's most important to keep your core warm, so a sweater or jacket would have been a good idea. Obviously in extreme cold you want to avoid losing as much heat as possible, but in 30º weather, shorts are fine for me. I do have (at least I think I still have) a pair of pants with zip-off legs. I like 'em, but find that I typically either go with shorts or pants and just live with the choice. I also have some gortex pants that I can pull over my shorts--this gives great protection from rain and cold. If you have them with you.

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Thanks for the thoughts!
 
comis said:
What I would love to know more is what steps/gears/improvement you decided upon to undertake, and will you take the initiative to get those done. After all, some many good ideas in this thread, and there must be some take away that could be done. ;)
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As requested:

I followed up with another day hike in the hills today. Somewhat better planning today, but still kept it fairly spontaneous and open-ended. I did check the weather: high of 48º today and a Winter Weather Advisory starting tonight and continuing through Nov 04. I left slightly better instructions with my wife and told her to expect me home for dinner.

I repacked my pack and headed out....

I ended up on a trail that crossed through some private and state land. Of course, my dog's idea was to follow the little deer trails and we ended up doing a bit of bushwacking. For a while we did not have a known location and were "navigating by instinct", but we were never technically 'lost'. Really.

We ran across an old mine site that apparently doubles as a target range:



Eventually made our way back to a trail where I noticed the predicted storm starting to move in:



But this time, I think we were better prepared...

Clothing: Merino Wool/Poly-blend base layer shirt under a Red checked poly shirt (Dry quickly, warm when wet). Nylon hiking pants (the kind that convert to shorts, not needed today). Wool socks and trail shoes w/ G'tex liners. Poly/cotton baseball cap (maybe not the perfect choice).

In the pack:



Water: 40 oz stainless steel bottle. 500mL flask reserve. Sierra cup.
Food: Jerky in ziplock (not shown 'cuz the dog would eat it.)
Shelter: Rain jacket. Mylar blanket (I think I'm going to upgrade this item)
Fire: ferro rod & striker. (replenished my supply of paraffin/jute tinder)
First Aid: home made FAK (see below)
Knife: Koyote fixed blade.
Small Ziplock with 20' 550 cord, a few feet of 4mil line., and 4 zip ties (always useful)
Navigation: compass & headlamp
Repair kit: not included, didn't seem necessary, really, but i did have a little survival tin:



Tin has a small knife, ferro rod & striker, safety pins, 2 needles, strong thread, Fresnel lens, small LED light, more paraffin impregnated jute, water purification tabs, and a small compass.

I was in a military survival school once, where an instructor (USN SEAL) shared a philosophy of having functional redundancy in 'layers'. For example, he might have most of his water in his pack; but that if that got dropped, he might have some water on his web gear; and if that were lost, he'd always have a small flask in a cargo pocket (with water...I think). Same idea for fire and first aid.

Using that idea, I added a 'layer' of gear to my pockets: a lighter, multitool, small light, small pepper spray, and, on a cord around my neck, a ferro rod.



Might have been a good idea to have the survival tin in a pocket instead of the pack. but I like the idea that it is in the pack and will always bee there.

Pack weight was 8.9 pounds. I didn't really notice it on the trail. It is a small Marmot Kompressor, not sure of the size. Very light and minimalist design. I like the red color in hunting season.

First Aid Kits (FAK) are funny things and the off-the-shelf models are pretty lame in my experience. I will sometimes use a commercial one as the basis for my own. This FAK is homemade from the ground up.



The Lifestraw is not necessarily a "first aid" item, but it fits nicely in the maroon pouch and is protected a bit.

My FAK is trauma based with clotting agent, gauze pads, and a tourniquet. I really like the SWAT-T tourniquet. It can be used for a pressure bandage as well as a tourniquet. It's a bit tricky to apply one-handed, but can be done. I suppose it could even be used like an ACE bandage, if not applied too tightly. In addition to trauma stuff, there is some antihistamines, eye drops, tweezers, bandaids, mole skin, etc.... As i took it apart, I noticed I didn't have any scissors in this kit. I thought about digging some out of another kit, but I have some scissors in my multitool, so I decided not to sweat it. Gives me an idea for another contest though....

So there you have it, Comis. My upgraded loadout. I think I could have added my fleece vest to the pack. I was warm while hiking all afternoon and got a bit sweaty, but if I had had to stay out overnight, I would have wished I'd brought it along. Maybe a wool hat would have been a nice addition. But, again, this was just a short (6 miles?) day hike and I was never more than a mile from a road. This was really more of a 'shakedown' walk to get the day-pack resupplied and consider requirements for some more extensive hikes.
 
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Cool Beans. :thumbup:

Looks like you put a lot of thought into this kit. I'm sure it will serve you well and only get better with time as you dial it in further for your tastes. :)
 
What I believe should be added:
#1 Multi tool or SAK. Some manufacturer somewhere makes a tool that you will like. It's always nice having those extra tools.

#2 Sandwich and maybe even a thermos of soup. A hot meal is 100% worth it's weight if you ask me.

#3 Some snacks for that happy looking dog!
 
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