CRK vs. Customs

JR, dude......whacha been smokin'? ANYTHING you use, be it a Sebenza, A JW Smith, an Obenauf, A Ford Escort or a Caddie, is going to devalue. Just look at all those "collectors" that offer up their usedcustoms at cut rate prices. Your logic needs a tune-up.
Barry H
 
Buy an Onion or an Emerson..........use it, and sell it for way more than you paid for it (if you got it from the maker at the original price)
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
Buy an Onion or an Emerson..........use it, and sell it for way more than you paid for it (if you got it from the maker at the original price)
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And if Chris Reeve were still making all his knives by hand the demand and cost would be about the same.
 
All of us place a different value on things.

Most of us do not "need" $345 sebenzas or $500 Mayo TNTs

While I do not own any sebenzas anymore they are very well made and reliable. Are they "worth" $345??? If you are happy with it, then it is.

I like hand craftsmanship and the skill it takes to make a precision made knife by hand. I am willing to pay more for it. Others are not and that is OK.

The value of such things is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Barry,

Your are flat wrong. It is your fault if you lose money on customs. If you buy a custom from a reputable maker, you should never lose money.

Look at motorcycles. You got Honda and you got Harley. You buy a Honda and as soon as you drive it off the floor, it is worth significantly less money. It is a great bike, every bit as good as a Harley performance wise. You buy a Harley for 17K and 10 years later you sell it for 17K, or in some cases more. The sebbie is a Honda. It will perform it's function clost to on par as the customs. It will do anything you need it to do. It doesn't hold the value or the mystique of the custom.

As I said earlier, it is a personal choice. If you like the sebbie at that price point, by all means buy it, use it, and enjoy it as long as you live. Squid asked for opinions, and IMHO, there are better options on the market.

As far as "sebbie bashers" go. There are just as many or more sebbie "cultists" as there are "bashers" hanging here. People who think the sebbie is God's gift to knives. That may be true for some, but for others, custom is the way to go. As far as $ to $ value, I feel customs are a much better value.

JR
 
You can get some gooood deals on Harleys here in the Bay Area right now.
 
You can also get some gooood deals on customs in the Knife Exchange right now.

Now...if you are selling and want to sit there and BTT a custom until you are blue in the face for the price you bought it for or more that's fine. But most customs don't seem to be selling until that price comes down below what you could order one from the maker for. I emphasize "most." I understand about Emersons, Onions and a few, very few select others.

JT
 
Any observation can be true with a sufficiently narrow point of view.
 
JR, you call supporters of Sebenza's "cultists". And you expect respect for what you say? "Cultists" implies that those who do find value in the Sebenza, and there are obviously a legion of us, as a bunch of jaded sheeple, worshipping at the alter of Mr. Reeve, and blinded to the fact that we are buying decent hardware at obscene (in your opinion) prices. I submit that your statement clearly identifies you as a certified "basher," probably with some kind of bone to pick with the popularity of the Sebenza.

In reading the posts on the CRK forum over time, I find that buyers of Sebenzas usually fall into two main categories. There are those that have never quite found satisfaction in their purchases of production knives. When they eventually get a Sebenza they find a knife that is made to a significantly higher standard than any of their previous purchases, and for once in their buying experience they are satisfied to a higher level than they have experienced before.

Then there is the body of knife collectors who appreciate a fine knife no matter what the origin, be it handmade or production. These are the people that come here to this custom forum. Though there is virtually no collector value in a production Sebbie, there are some collectible versions such as the "H" series or the Gold Coin series. These collectors are like you and I; we know quality. We know customs. We know what we like. We KNOW knives. And we still buy Sebbies along with our customs. Why? For whatever reason. Maybe we consider a Sebbie as our "workhorse" EDC, indestructible and ever-faithful, and maybe we just can't see putting our $3500 Ron Lake interframe into our pocket to get scratched with the keys. Or maybe it is just that we happen to like the Sebenza for what it is, and despite our knowledge about the custom knife market, we still find virtue in the Sebenza that makes it a worthwhile purchase.

So JR, we perceive your comments as reflecting some sort of superior attitude because you have somehow "graduated" to the ranks of the custom market, and somehow that fact alone makes customs better than a Sebenza. Of course you always qualify your statements with "in my opinion". But when you lower yourself to branding a class of knife buyers by name, you lose all of your credibility.

-JKI, cultist
 
JKI,

When did I call ALL people who like the sebenza cultists? NEVER. You can twist my words all you want, and all it does is make you look silly. I am not a sebenza "basher." Someone slicited opinions of the sebbie in relation to customs. The sebenza is a great knife. For the price, it is not the best. Simple opinion. I said there are sebenza cultists who think it is God's gift to the knife world. That holds true. Doesn't make everyone who owns one that way. JK, you can twist my words to make me same like a bad guy, not going to work. I don't have a problem with the sebenza. Great knife, just more then I am willing to pay for the knife. The only reason custom knives are discounted on the forums is because people really want or need to move them for other purchases. Or, they came into a good deal when they bought, possibly through trades. Like Les R said, and I have commented on several times, it's your fault if you lose money on a custom from a reputable maker. The sebbie simply does not hold near the value of a custom from a well-known maker.

JR
 
CRK are great knives. I love them. I think the Mnandi is one of the nicest production knives that I have ever seen or had the chance to handle (a very smooth little knife with a very solid feel). That being said, I prefer custom knives. Not just because I think they are a little bit better knives, but because I love dealing with knifemakers. To me that is one of the greatest joys of buying a custom knife. The fact that I can some input as to what the final knife will be is important to me. I know that I can make some of the decisions on how a CRK knife will look, but it is not the same.
 
Tom,

There is a lot more to life then that. But what good does spending money unwisely do for you. (that is not a direct attack towards the sebbie) Tom, I see a Bible reference in your profile and I am working towards a career in the ministry right now. 1 out of every 10 verses in the 4 gospels deals directly with money. I understand priorities and that there are things much more important then money. Money in itself is not a bad thing.

Just so you guys can get off my jock, I am working on a deal right now for a sebbie.

JR
 
Actually, I decided against the sebbie for now. I looked at my paper work and have several knives due in very soon and need the cash for them.

JR
 
Sure,the Sebenza is a great knife. Awesome Fit and Finish. Sweet Grinds,smooth action,etc etc...

Someday,I will own one...but not for 345 bucks.If I found one for 200-250,sure,I would probably buy it...'cept how many sebby's have you seen for that low?
Once again,not bad mouthing anyone (I have a lot of respect for Chris and Anne),nor am I shoving anything down anyones throat.

For 50 bucks more,though,I can get a Carson M4 built to my specs,with whatever handle material,blade steel or whatever on it.

Sebby for 350?
Not if it's a production knife.
If it was one man making them,by hand,IT WOULD BE A STEAL AT 500 BUCKS.

There are very few production knives I would be willing to spend that kind of money on,one exception would be a MicroTech OTF.

To each his own.


As far as JR's statements go, He has shared his opinion,everyone else has shared theres. Why argue?
Buy what you want,Life is too short.
 
Originally posted by cpirtle



I just can't be sold on the idea that any custom is better than a Sebenza, no matter how hard I try. And that's coming from someone who loves & prefers custom knives.
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I agree. I've seen some horrendous customs out there,that the Sebenza would beat hands down.
 
Well, one fact remains, you seem to find quite a selection of used Sebbies to choose from, but have you ever tried to find a good used custom for sale. Just not many of them around.

Let's just say that I had a nice Carson #4 that I paid $450 for. I used it for a couple years, sharpened it a few times, put on the customary scratches and carry marks. What would this knife sell for? It sure the heck wouldn't be anything like $450! $300? There is just not much of a market IMO for used customs. Don't get me wrong, I for one would love to get my hands on some nice custom users at reduced prices. Problem is you just don't see many up for grabs in used condition.

So you can talk resale value all you want, but nearly any used custom will probably lose nearly as much value as a Sebbie.

I for one will generally buy knives that I like and don't give a rats ass from an investment standpoint. If I like it, I buy it. If I buy it, I generally use it. Losing a measley $100 on a nice knife is not enough to keep me from buying what I like.
 
Originally posted by blademan 13
Well, one fact remains, you seem to find quite a selection of used Sebbies to choose from, but have you ever tried to find a good used custom for sale. Just not many of them around.
Click to expand...

Very good point.

I just bought a custom folder with light to moderate use on it for $250 which sold new for close to $500, find a Sebenza in any condition for 1/2 price and you have a steal. People know they can have them refurbed for $25 and be back to new, what other "production" company will do that?

Put a used custom for sale at 1/2 off and people will likely wonder what's wrong with it, put a used Sebenza for sale at 1/2 off and it will be gone within 5 minutes, no questions asked.

Look at the resale value of Crawford KFF's. I have one I love and paid $250 for after it had sat on the forums un-touched for almost 2 weeks, one of my favorite users and rock solid.

I think most people who buy a Sebenza carry and use them where more customs sit in a box. I carry and use all of my knives so I stand to lose more when I sell them.

A used Sebenza will garnish an equal or higher percentage resale than a similarly used custom in many/most cases. This would not include the highly desireable and hard to find pieces that are out there.

I think you will find a great number of people who appreciate the value of a quality knife and don't get hung up on the "custom" vs. "production" stuff. A Sebenza is as much a handmade as an Elishewitz or Crawford but the Sebenza has more than on set of hands touching it.

When you break it down to "brass tax" a Sebenza is as well made and as sturdy or more sturdy than any custom folder, after that it's asthetics, ability to customize and developing a relationship with the maker.

JR, you compare the Sebenza to a Honda while I compare it to a Volvo. People who buy Volvo's do so because of Volvo's conservative approach to developing a car, making a car that works flawlessly and will last you forever. Creature comforts and asthetics are an afterthought. All of that comes at a price.
 
cpirtle... you are right on. I still am trying to figure out what world those who say you will never lose money on a custom live in.

There are knives that have been sitting on the forums for months from very reputable makers that didn't sell until they went way below list from the maker.

blademan 13... I am with you on buying for investment purposes. First off...If I want to invest my money I sure as hell don't put it in a knife (that's crazier than just being a knife nut). If I lose a few bucks on a knife, I just chalk it up to the cost of getting to have/use that particular knife for a while.

Finally...there are plenty of Sebenzas to be had for $200-$250. In fact I have had a small, large and Umfaan and haven't paid over $250 for any of them. Most were in very light or LN condition.

JT
 
I don't understand why a "new" custom is discounted on the secondary market. Most popular makers have fairly longish waits, so there's a demand, and a knife that's available immediately should fetch a premium.
 
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