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Is the custom Crawford/Kasper Folder much better than the one from Columbia River? Hope that that's not too stupid of a question.
CRKT Crawford/Kasper vs the Original
- Thread starter AnklePocket
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It's not necessarily a stupid question, if your experience of customs is limited to looking at them in photos....
There is nothing more compelling than looking at a production knife and a factory knife together....
Customs all the way!!!
James
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My Home Page (writings)
The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
There is nothing more compelling than looking at a production knife and a factory knife together....
Customs all the way!!!
James
------------------
My Home Page (writings)
The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
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AS much as I like the CRKT version, am sure that the difference is dramatic. Just read a thread tonite -- either Shop Talk or more likely Custom Forum -- where a person who just got the Crawford version, said it made him forget all about his CR Sebenza. Indicated no comparison. Given all the hysterics about the CRs, that is high praise indeed.
You should get more for $360 more or more, I think!
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Asi es la vida
Bugs
You should get more for $360 more or more, I think!
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Asi es la vida
Bugs
hi - yes i think that was me who posted that thread when i got my crawford- have been carrying it 24/7 since, and like it better everyday - workmanship, fitting, etc all top notch, even better than my seb, imho..
but the CRKT is darned close to the crawford - i have both - and by close i mean the handle/blade shape - the crkt is thicker than the crawford, and heavier, but the shape is pretty close - its in other areas that the crawford outshines the crkt, like the fitting of the liner lock, and just the overall construction is just really top notch, knife sounds completely different from the crkt version when opened - is it worth about 10X the cost? well, it was and is to me, but if ya just want a knife that looks like a kasper, the crkt might make ya happy - BUT the original kasper is, of course, a much much better knife - hard to explain, ya just can hold them in your hand and see the difference though, especially if ya are a knife nut - and the blade takes/holds a much better edge of course
sifu
but the CRKT is darned close to the crawford - i have both - and by close i mean the handle/blade shape - the crkt is thicker than the crawford, and heavier, but the shape is pretty close - its in other areas that the crawford outshines the crkt, like the fitting of the liner lock, and just the overall construction is just really top notch, knife sounds completely different from the crkt version when opened - is it worth about 10X the cost? well, it was and is to me, but if ya just want a knife that looks like a kasper, the crkt might make ya happy - BUT the original kasper is, of course, a much much better knife - hard to explain, ya just can hold them in your hand and see the difference though, especially if ya are a knife nut - and the blade takes/holds a much better edge of course
sifu
I'll tell you, I've had, (and have), the customs and I'm impressed wth these! They are a bargain. I don't care if they are made in Taiwan, they are first class IMHO. I forgot to mention that I don't like FRN or Zytel scales but they got them right on these things.
[This message has been edited by Gene (edited 06-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Gene (edited 06-07-2001).]
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I haven't yet seen the custom version, but I just got my Columbia River one today and it's a big-time winner. Even a bigger winner when you throw the price into the mix. Not even that interested in the custom anymore - nothing personal. Would like to see it, though, sometime.
hey i am in no way slammin CRKT - i have a large kasper and a small 1 on the way - will carry it for a utility knife - they are a good deal for sure, and a heck of a knife at 2X the price - what if CRKT came out w/1 with either a aluminum handle w/the lghtening holes, or a micarta handle? bet they couldnt make enuff to keep them in stock, and could easily sell them in the $100 range - i would buy 1 - would anyone else??
but the custom is better made, etc - ya would REALLY have to try to mess up or break a crawford, imho it would take a lot more really serious abuse than the CRKT, but i have no proof of this - cant wait to get my small 1 - should be here the 10th - anyway either 1 is good, its a GOOD DESIGN, thanks bob kasper......
sifu
but the custom is better made, etc - ya would REALLY have to try to mess up or break a crawford, imho it would take a lot more really serious abuse than the CRKT, but i have no proof of this - cant wait to get my small 1 - should be here the 10th - anyway either 1 is good, its a GOOD DESIGN, thanks bob kasper......
sifu
I'm sure I've said it before...
GET THEM BOTH!!
Get a Crawford custom, perhaps an all titanium one, like mine. Or...one with mastadon ivory scales and a damascus blade. THEN...
get the CRKT knife, and use that for everyday carry, or dull it down and make it into a training knife. OR...
use the CRKT knife in your left hand pocket, and the Crawford custom in your right.
Any other questions?
GET THEM BOTH!!
Get a Crawford custom, perhaps an all titanium one, like mine. Or...one with mastadon ivory scales and a damascus blade. THEN...
get the CRKT knife, and use that for everyday carry, or dull it down and make it into a training knife. OR...
use the CRKT knife in your left hand pocket, and the Crawford custom in your right.
Any other questions?
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For a slightly contrary opinion ...
For years, I've liked Crawford's designs and overall work, but he's was one of my least favorite liner lock makers. I'd go up to a table and way too many of his locks looked like they'd slip. Even a buddy who knows little about knives mentioned it to me after playing with some Crawfords. In more recent times, Crawford has been burying the lock below the scales and making the liner really stick at times, which is one way to ensure there won't be accidental closures. However, it is possible to make a very safe, reliable liner lock without making it stick too hard -- it's just difficult to do.
So it's an especially good comparison of factory vs. custom in this case, at least concerning the lock itself. Unfortunately, CRKT is not exactly my fave production liner lock maker either, but at least they have that LAWKS thing (the Kaspar comes with it, right?).
So, the comparison is most likely:
- Very well done, well-finished custom-quality knife with a sticky liner lock
vs.
- Very well done, well-finished especially for its price production version, lock reliability varies but it has the LAWKS which makes the lock acceptable if you use it.
Joe
For years, I've liked Crawford's designs and overall work, but he's was one of my least favorite liner lock makers. I'd go up to a table and way too many of his locks looked like they'd slip. Even a buddy who knows little about knives mentioned it to me after playing with some Crawfords. In more recent times, Crawford has been burying the lock below the scales and making the liner really stick at times, which is one way to ensure there won't be accidental closures. However, it is possible to make a very safe, reliable liner lock without making it stick too hard -- it's just difficult to do.
So it's an especially good comparison of factory vs. custom in this case, at least concerning the lock itself. Unfortunately, CRKT is not exactly my fave production liner lock maker either, but at least they have that LAWKS thing (the Kaspar comes with it, right?).
So, the comparison is most likely:
- Very well done, well-finished custom-quality knife with a sticky liner lock
vs.
- Very well done, well-finished especially for its price production version, lock reliability varies but it has the LAWKS which makes the lock acceptable if you use it.
Joe
upon close examination of the liner lock on my crawford, i find no reason to anticipate any difficulties, nor is mine 'sticky'- actually it looks similar to the lock on my seb, i was comparing the 2 earlier, and they are supposed to be the best - dont think either would break unless you tried to break them, and , in that case, anything can be broken....nor on the CRKT actually IF ya have the lawks thing engaged ....
sifu
[This message has been edited by SIFU1A (edited 06-10-2001).]
sifu
[This message has been edited by SIFU1A (edited 06-10-2001).]
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Great, I hope you have a good one. However, it's important to note that "close examination" -- if that means just looking -- pretty much tells you nothing about how reliable the lockup is. It also means very little if the lockup "feels" very solid. You absolutely do not have to do anything even remotely approaching "abuse" to see some CRKT liner locks slip. Slow spine pressure, moderate spine whacking, and hard torquing while holding in a firm grip, show reliability problems easily. These are all things that you might end up doing for even moderate use, so unless you're using this as a gent's knife, it's important. And these tests are especially appropriate, in my opinion, when a knife is advertised as a combat knife.
Note that one important touchstone is how many reliability failures we see -- not breakage, accidental unlocking in use or in testing. I've read very many about CRKT, very very few about the Sebenza, to pick on the two knives you cite. Hell, I've even read that the LAWKS will eventually work its way off with repeated stresses! BTW, one is an integral lock, one a liner lock -- they may appear superficially similar if you don't understand what's going on, but these formats are IMO worlds apart when it comes to reliability.
Anyway, again, if you feel you tested your knife thoroughly and yours is reliable, that's great. But if your examination was a cursory as it sounds, and if you really don't know the differences between an integral and liner lock, I truly believe you should take a second look, including some simple hands-on testing.
Joe
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Oops, sorry, I just realized that you were talking about your Crawford, not your CRKT. All the above still holds, except that there's less reports about Crawford's locks than about CRKT's (or the Sebenza's for that matter), because there are way fewer out there, and most likely even less being tested and used hard. I stand by my other comments about what I've observed about Crawford's liner locks.
and i stand behind what i say - i see noreson why the liner lock on my crawford custom is going to fail, sure i could break it, i can break anything i put my mind to beaking, but is that really the point? it will suffice for my needs - by the way of all the knives i have had, the only 1 i have had locking probs w/was a SIFU w/a rolling lock - the first 1 i had w/the grooved handle, the lock simply stopped locking, and as a result i got a nasty cut on 2 fingers so i give all my knives a close look to try and prevent this from happening again believe me - and yes bob b at REKAT fixed it in a timely manner, and have had no probs since - and yes the lock on the crawford looks stronger than the CRKT, and the blade on the crawford does not rub the liner on opening ala CRKT(it makes a horrible scratching noise) but imho the CRKT is still a good deal @ less than $50, and will fullfill its intended purpose w/out a prob - check out this site for a test of the CRKT -
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001704.html
this gentleman put his CRKY kasper thru the mill, a lot tougher treatment than mine will ever see..
SIFU
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001704.html
this gentleman put his CRKY kasper thru the mill, a lot tougher treatment than mine will ever see..
SIFU
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Great! But I have to flap my trap one more time before I let this go
When you say you are very sure of your Crawford's lock, can you tell me what you've done to test the reliability? Spine whack? Spine pressure? Torquing? It can be argued that any of those could occur during even moderate use, and obviously during the hard use Kaspar and Crawford and CRKT seem to have in mind for this knife.
Joe
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If you like the CRKT's then you may like the new aluminum-handled versions. Very slick, IMHO.
I also saw some custom Crawford/Kasper folders at Blade. I fell in LOVE with one with a partly stag grip. Beautiful, but the reason I liked it so much was because it fit my hand PERFECTLY.
Here are some pics of the new CRKT aluminum Crawford/Kaspers as well as of the custom with the stag grip.
http://members4.clubphoto.com/a318774/Blade_Show/
[This message has been edited by Andrew Lynch (edited 06-11-2001).]
I also saw some custom Crawford/Kasper folders at Blade. I fell in LOVE with one with a partly stag grip. Beautiful, but the reason I liked it so much was because it fit my hand PERFECTLY.
Here are some pics of the new CRKT aluminum Crawford/Kaspers as well as of the custom with the stag grip.
http://members4.clubphoto.com/a318774/Blade_Show/
[This message has been edited by Andrew Lynch (edited 06-11-2001).]
uh if the liner lock fails, to me anyway, the thing broke - just like when my rolling lock failed, it broke - i always hold the knives i buy w/a steel glove on, and whack them (not too hard) to check the lock out - again i dont go nuts trying to break it - what is it you seem to have a bone to pick w/crawford knives - you are the first and only person i have seen on this forum to bad mouth them - whats up w/that? you and pat/wes get into it about something.....it dont matter to me, i'm very happy w/mine, just cant understand why you are so sure its gonna break?
sifu
sifu
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I try never to forget that the guy who makes a knife is feeding his family. That's one reason why I've had misgivings in continuing to respond. The other reason is that a spirited discussion can quickly turn into a more ad-hominem argument on these forums, as your argument above does. But, when I see someone who seems to confuse integral and liner locks, and who uses terms like "break" when discussing liner lock reliability, I tend to pursue it anyway.
Really, I have no problem whatsoever with Crawford. We've had brief, pleasant exchanges. But the fact remains, in the past I've seen liner locks on his tables that showed signs of being unreliable. Within the past couple of years, he started burying the liner underneath the handles and really sticking the lock-up harder, which says to me that he noticed the same problems.
I'm not "bad mouthing" them. I'm giving you a truthful account of some concerns I have.
Really, that's it. Nothing personal against the Crawfords -- or against you.
This is getting silly. Can you quote me where I say I'm sure it's going to break? My ability to communicate can't have deteriorated that much
ok i'll play word games - fail - i dont think the liner lock on my $500 crawford kasper folding fighter knife is going to fail - nor do i think the liner lock on my CRKT kasper is going to fail - the rolling lock on my sifu failed - and, again, imho if the thing FAILS and cuts the piss out of me, i will send it back, because the knife is BROKEN to get it fixed, eg my SIFU -
no offense taken, but i like the knife, can find nothing really wrong w/it, and i am happy w/it - if you dont like them, dont buy 1 - but, again i am very happy w/mine - i will admit, i have seen exactly 2 crawfords in person, 1 about 4 yrs old, and mine, which is about 2 yrs old at the most, and niether 1 of these have exhibited any problems whatsoever, 1 belonged to my bro-in-law and he loaned it to me to carry for a while, i loaned him a guitar - it is a bead blast finish w/micarta handles - i carried extensivly for 2 months, liked it - when he wanted it back i got a CRKT, nice but not the same so i traded for my crawford - so, at least based onmy limited experience, i love them - they are scarce as chicken lips in this neck of the woods, no knife shows, plenty of gunshows, and they have a lot of knives (eg CRKT,emerson,microtech,REKAT,boker,gerber,kershaw, etc - but very few customs - only see a seb now and then, suprising as i have yet to talk to anyone in this neck of the woods who had a clue as to what 1` was even)but like i say i am happy, and see nothing in the lock area to worry about - and dont mean to offend you, either - just my opinion on my knife - sorry if you disagree, but so be it - god be with you and best wishes -
sifu
sifu
[This message has been edited by SIFU1A (edited 06-12-2001).]
no offense taken, but i like the knife, can find nothing really wrong w/it, and i am happy w/it - if you dont like them, dont buy 1 - but, again i am very happy w/mine - i will admit, i have seen exactly 2 crawfords in person, 1 about 4 yrs old, and mine, which is about 2 yrs old at the most, and niether 1 of these have exhibited any problems whatsoever, 1 belonged to my bro-in-law and he loaned it to me to carry for a while, i loaned him a guitar - it is a bead blast finish w/micarta handles - i carried extensivly for 2 months, liked it - when he wanted it back i got a CRKT, nice but not the same so i traded for my crawford - so, at least based onmy limited experience, i love them - they are scarce as chicken lips in this neck of the woods, no knife shows, plenty of gunshows, and they have a lot of knives (eg CRKT,emerson,microtech,REKAT,boker,gerber,kershaw, etc - but very few customs - only see a seb now and then, suprising as i have yet to talk to anyone in this neck of the woods who had a clue as to what 1` was even)but like i say i am happy, and see nothing in the lock area to worry about - and dont mean to offend you, either - just my opinion on my knife - sorry if you disagree, but so be it - god be with you and best wishes -
sifu
sifu
[This message has been edited by SIFU1A (edited 06-12-2001).]
Hey Joe,
Points well taken. I must agree that I've also observed, (and tested), some Crawford custom liner locks that weren't as sound as they could have been. I've ALSO observed some that have been as strong as you could ask. One thing I will comment on is Pat and Wes WILL CORRECT the lock, if it is not up to standards. I realize that is little consolation if the lock fails during an emergency, but it is a fact. I, in no way, am defending the Crawford's quality or lacking thereof, I'm just stating that I somewhat AGREE with you, that I HAVE observed some of their LL's that could have been better. Maybe it's something to do with they are getting like Randall knives. Everybody raves about how tough they are but nobody USES them anymore!
My REAL reason for posting though, is that aren't you really behaving anal with this newbie forumite? This exchange reminds me of years ago when I excitedly proclaimed that my brand new "revised" Spyderco Military was a solid performer. To my dismay, your good friend Steve Harvey railed against me and stated that the Military was a failure at best. He was going by an experience that happened to an EMT, (or whomever), where the liner lock on an early Military failed and caused undue distress. This set off an exchange between the two of us where I was WRONG and he was RIGHT about the Military being inferior and liner locks were also inferior. By the way, YOU came to his defense and were loaded for bear. How could I challenge these two intellectuals that knew so much better than I? Steve belatedly admitted that liner locks done properly were okay and the Military in question was an early one. After locking one of my threads on one of the early forums where I politely expressed my views that I LIKED liner locks if done correctly, I was astounded! He e-mailed me expressing his displeasure. I responded and e-mailed him and, (in no uncertain words), expressed MY displeasure. He unlocked the thread, but I always wondered WHY he put me through all that.
Joe, I really didn't want to get into this but you expressed your disagreement with this fellow and I think he GOT it. Let it be. I DO respect you Joe and your opinions are valid. That doesn't mean that this fellow's opinions are less valid.
Hey! I notice that Steve has mellowed considerably since those early days. Maybe we're ALL getting crotchety in our old age!
[This message has been edited by Gene (edited 06-12-2001).]
Points well taken. I must agree that I've also observed, (and tested), some Crawford custom liner locks that weren't as sound as they could have been. I've ALSO observed some that have been as strong as you could ask. One thing I will comment on is Pat and Wes WILL CORRECT the lock, if it is not up to standards. I realize that is little consolation if the lock fails during an emergency, but it is a fact. I, in no way, am defending the Crawford's quality or lacking thereof, I'm just stating that I somewhat AGREE with you, that I HAVE observed some of their LL's that could have been better. Maybe it's something to do with they are getting like Randall knives. Everybody raves about how tough they are but nobody USES them anymore!
My REAL reason for posting though, is that aren't you really behaving anal with this newbie forumite? This exchange reminds me of years ago when I excitedly proclaimed that my brand new "revised" Spyderco Military was a solid performer. To my dismay, your good friend Steve Harvey railed against me and stated that the Military was a failure at best. He was going by an experience that happened to an EMT, (or whomever), where the liner lock on an early Military failed and caused undue distress. This set off an exchange between the two of us where I was WRONG and he was RIGHT about the Military being inferior and liner locks were also inferior. By the way, YOU came to his defense and were loaded for bear. How could I challenge these two intellectuals that knew so much better than I? Steve belatedly admitted that liner locks done properly were okay and the Military in question was an early one. After locking one of my threads on one of the early forums where I politely expressed my views that I LIKED liner locks if done correctly, I was astounded! He e-mailed me expressing his displeasure. I responded and e-mailed him and, (in no uncertain words), expressed MY displeasure. He unlocked the thread, but I always wondered WHY he put me through all that.
Joe, I really didn't want to get into this but you expressed your disagreement with this fellow and I think he GOT it. Let it be. I DO respect you Joe and your opinions are valid. That doesn't mean that this fellow's opinions are less valid.
Hey! I notice that Steve has mellowed considerably since those early days. Maybe we're ALL getting crotchety in our old age!
[This message has been edited by Gene (edited 06-12-2001).]