CRKT M-16Z liner lock failed.

The only CRKT I currently have is a Viele Wasp and the lock works very well and seems much more robust than the liners of the M-series. I've handled quite a few M-series folders, some virtually brand new (maybe a few weeks old). With a few flicks of the flipper, I was able to get the liner full to the other side of the tang, regardless of whether it was the cheapo zytel version or the nicer aluminum ones. This was only maybe 3-4 flicks by me, and a few by my friend before me. Even one brand new out of the box did that in a dozen or so flips. Considering the M-series are supposed to be flicked open with the flipper, it's bad that the liner wears so quickly to the other side of the tang. I have other liner locks that I flick/flip or are assisted (so it flicks for me) that I've done many more hard opens on and the liners are still not even at center tang. As someone said above, there are so many other choices for the price, so I'd rather look at those. And as others have said, I love their designs (M-series and others), but don't like their execution.

I do, however, like their frame locks like the My Tighe (well, everything, especially the aesthetics, except the 1.4116 steel...eh).
 
This complaint about the liner going all the way across the tang makes no sense to me. The only times I've had issues iwth liner locks being too weak or not engauging is when the liner (or framelock) doesn't move far enough across the tang. In fact, once I broke my old junglee in, and the liner moved all the way across to the other side, it was about as strong a lock as you can imagine! Sure, it took some effort to close, but not so much I had to break out the BFH or anything.

So can anybody explain to me why its so gawd awful to have hte liner move across the tang??
 
Buck286,
I can explain as it was my knife. The liner didn't just move all the way over and then stop. It moved all the way over and then the past the edge of the blade tang and then the lock failed and the blade closed on my hand! I was wearing gloves because I normally do at work so I was not cut. The liner got wedged between the side of the handle and the blade tang. It is hard to imagine if you look at a Spyderco Military or other really well made liner lock but the M-16 has more slop and space for the liner to go if it gets forced.

Imagine the liner moving all the way over and then the blade closing. This forces the liner past any normal movment. Also, it shaved a few silvers of metal of the blade tang or liner when it did it. I tried to leave the silvers in place so CRKT would see them.

I was not doing anything crazy with the knife just so you know. I do the same thing with my BM 921 Switchback 20 time a day. I was cutting wire ties by levering the blade. It does put all the force on the lock side but a decent lock will have zero problem with this type of chore. I have literally done it thousands of time with my various work knives with no issue. BMs, Spydercos and others have all done it without failing. That is why I think it was such a sorry lock design.
 
Wire ties are tough and a pain in the ass to cut when in place. If I knew I was cutting 20+ a day I think I would invest in a nice set of Klein snips.
 
Buck268 - along with kgriggs8's scenario, for knives with a stop pin or similar part, as that wears and the liner lock is all the way at the other end of the tang, there will be vertical play in the blade. Also, consider the M-series are design to be flipped open which wears out stops more than one that is thumb opened. And also consider that the M-series have fairly thin liners which can, like in kgrigg8's case, get stuck between the blade tang and the other liner (space where the washer is), sometimes closing on you when you don't want, other times getting stuck there open and your folder is no longer a folder. The movement of a liner lock all the way across the tang in a short matter of time is poor design and/or quality of materials. Take a look at a BM, Spyderco, or Kershaw liner lock that even after many years of opening, even hard opening, don't move past half tang.
 
I have had good luck with my M16-13 knifes, I have had the militay (lost) Zytel (given to a freind) and my Titanium, which I have, it's really nice and simple, they are pretty fool proof and plain, nothing fancy about the. Although I have an itch for a BM 710 in D2
 
Thanks kgriggs, I can definately see on a low-cost knife there being enough slop to fit the liner between the tang and the opposite handle. Is this inherent to the zytel M series or would maintaining proper tension on the pivot screw help?
 
Buck, once the lock travels all the way across the tang it can be secure. The negative to it doing this is the potential for the lock to wedge in where the non lock side washer sits which can and does happen, but the real draw back is that the lock no longer can self adjust for wear but wear will continue. So the only thing left for it once the wear gets to a certain point is to result in vertical movement up and down of the blade during use. Granted depending on use this can still take quite a while but it is inevitable.

Personally I'd own Kershaws or Spydercos stainless liner locks over anything else out there. For one they make them well, and for another stainless just wears much better than titanium. I only use titanium on frame locks.

STR
 
well ive had my m16-13z for quite some time now (maybe around 2-3 years). i use to carry it everyday until i got my BM551. so far i havent had any problems with the liner lock. it stops in the middle of the tang. and it doesnt matter how i open it, i havent had a problem of the LAWKS not going into place (on the manual version of it anyway). and garageboy can vouch for me when i say that i use to flip the m16 everyday multiple times when i was bored. quite hard too. maybe i just got lucky and got one that had a good lock on it.
 
I assume most of the CKRT knives work and are made well. I just think that the quality of material and workmanship is not up to BM or Spyderco. That is not a surprise as BM and Spyderco have a great rep as some of the best production knives out there. They also cost more.

I consider CRK&T a very average company. They make decent knives for reasonable amount of money. They wouldn't be my first choice but they are better than some of the junk out there. I rank them just about the S&W line of knives and a few steps above the cheap Chinese knock offs. They do not compare to even the Spydero Byrd line let alone the regular Spyderco line-up.

It isn't a big surprise but I thought people would be interested to know that CRKT is not what I would call a first rate company.
 
I agree, definitely the wrong choice for cutting wire ties. A decent set of Kliens (many to choose from) would be a much better choice.
Proper tool for the application makes a world of difference, and MUCH safer.
 
STR said:
Personally I'd own Kershaws or Spydercos stainless liner locks over anything else out there. For one they make them well, and for another stainless just wears much better than titanium. I only use titanium on frame locks.
Click to expand...

I'll just say that I have had two (each) Spyderco and Kershaw liner locks fail out of the box: the only Benchmade linerlock I ever had fail was my first BM, my second EDC, a Panther; and that was solid out of the box, it just wore into unreliability after a half decade of EDC.

Now I haven't had a new in box Spydie or Kershaw linerlock with lock failure in the last five years. But then I haven't bought one in that period - I just haven't felt confident in their reliability. Hell, I don't even want to buy BM linerlocks these days - I think the format, while it can excell, is just too prone to small manufacturing flaws (and mismeasures, and misalignments, etc) that degrade it.

I will add that both Kershaw and Spyderco have provided good customer service when requested - my beef is the lock, not the companies.

There are good liner locks. I own some. But I'm coming to think of the format as just too finicky for me to worry about, especially after after having a couple be rock solid for years and then get unreliable as they wore in. I don't need the headache.

It's a shame that so many otherwise exceptional knives are only made as linerlocks. If I could buy a Military, Lone Wolf Harsey, BM Dejavoo, Outdoor Edge Carson, or BM Stryker, or Kerhaw [fill in the blank] as an Axis lock, compression lock, Spydie lockback, etc, I'd start spending money tomorrow.
 
While I don't have strong feelings on this since I've never owned a knife with the LAWKS, I'll note that Cliff started talking about how the LAWKS can slip off many many years ago. I wince whenever I see someone write, "when the LAWKS is engaged, it's practically a fixed blade!" The LAWKS seems to generally work, but there do seem to be times where it slips off with spine or torquing pressure.
 
I absolutely will not buy CRKT.

Their blade steels are below industry standards for the price and I have never trusted the lock (or Lawks) on any of the models I have used.

I'll stick with a Spyderco Lockback, thankyouverymuch. :)
 
mp510 said:
[...] m-16s with the LAWKS safety at Wal-Mart. The lock was "so defective" it wouldn't engage at all.
Click to expand...

I bought a new M16 and the liner lock would not engage if I opened the blade gently. After a few dozen openings it now engages every time without failure. Probably the lock engaging surfaces were slightly rough and were smoothed down in use.

I really like the handle and the blade shape of the M16. I just ordered two more.
 
The Zytel CRKT M16s are nice looking knives but I would never buy one or use one. I do not trust them, and I have heard some scary things about them here on the forum. The only CRKT I have is a small Viele Wasp, which was DC'd a while back and is a nice little knife.
 
Just wondering... I have an older CRKT M16, beat the snot out of it since I got it in /around '98 and have never had a problem. Been chopping, prying, using it to punch through drywall, etc
Blade is marked Taiwan. I have a few new ones with the zytel handles- the blades are all marked China.

Just wondering if there is some sort of correlation between bad / good experiences and where the blade was produced...
 
Does anyone else besides me wonder why companies design knives with a liner lock where the liner is thin and there is a gap big enough between the blade and handle scales for said liner to fit? It seems like such a blatantly stupid design choice to me and has ever since I saw it on some CRKT's.
 
I'd like to put in another vote on not using a knife on wire ties , unless they are thin and skimpy , you are just asking for an injury.

My EDC as of late is a fat Schrade single blade jackknife , the edge will shave arm hair but cutting thru a thick wire tie ? You have to extert too much pressure to cut thru those , what do you think could happen if you slip with all the extra pressure.

Get a decent multitool with a wire cutter for such tasks.
 
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